Respect of the rich and the poor

[smohrle]

Oohh do you know how to ask the question's...
I have a frame of reference from both sides of this fence. Not to be snobby, but my husband and I happen to be NOW two of the "rich" FIE buying newbies . We were not always that fortunate.

I think if you start looking beyond work ethic, commitment and drive (ie social economic status) you are well beyond what the sport was intended for. Neither my husband nor I grew up in "rich" families, but worked our butts off in the sports we played, becoming top ranked athletes. Now as "rich" induviduals, we still work our butts off to become top ranked athletes. All our money allowed us is the ability to buy better equipment initially (which in our mind is important for protection).

I do believe that some of the above posters are correct that the sport is expensive if you want to become serious about it. But honestly, no more expensive than any of the other sports I played in high school, college and later as an adult (these include soccer, swimming, cross-country and triathlons). If you are serious about something (aka want to become a high level player/athlete), then you will have to sacrifice work, time and money. My parents sacrificed for me to become a high level athlete, but I was expected to perform at the highest level that was possible. I believe clubs and people are missing the mark: instead of saying one is better than the other (rich vs. poor), involve both parties. Motivate the richer individuals to use their knowledge, connections, money or influence to help the club and therefor in the process, helping the less advantaged. There are ignorant idiots on both sides of this fence.

Ok, off of my soap box now...
Like I said, you know how to ask the question's!

Sarah

[sabreman]

>>
Motivate the richer individuals to use their knowledge, connections, money or influence to help the club and therefor in the process, helping the less advantaged. There are ignorant idiots on both sides of this fence.
>>

Well it isn't happening in most places in the US other then at the PWF and the FC. The sport is not available to most and there isn't a support system for kids that don't have the money to pay for lessons or travel the world. This limits the talent pool.

[smohrle]

That's exactly what I am talking about. A lot of people termed "rich" seem to be labeled with this insensitive, don't-care-about-anyone-else label (believe me, there are some people that completely deserve this label - again on both sides of the fence though).

Sometimes it is a ignorance issue on how to help. Not to pick on anyone, but like the quote above:

"What really irks me are newbie fencers decked out in top of the line FIE gear, etc."

Unfortunately, that is not a unique attitude. Or the attitude of: "I don't want to hang with or fence you because you are new and not good". I personally have seen this attitude now, and am not inclined to be overlly helpfull to a club that promotes these attitudes in their fencers or coaches.

Mainly what I am trying to say with this diatride, is this:
Every fencer, volunteer, coach and administrator in the club contributes to the overall impression a person derives from the club. If the above parties are stand-offish or hard to get to know, there is very little likelyhood that the new fencer will want to keep fencing, least of all contribute in any manner. This goes for new fencers that are rich or poor. Contribution does not always come in the form of money.

On the other hand, if the club is welcoming, supportive and honestly cares about new fencers, there becomes a freindship of sorts and a loyalty of sorts. For example, you are more likely to help your best friend out or a family member out if they ask for help, rather than if a total stranger asks for help (NOTE: this is a over-generalization, don't jump me for this). I am basicly saying the same thing in the above paragraph.

Anyway, I see a overlying problem than just rich vs. poor. But, I digress, and am somewhat hijacking this thread...So soapbox off...
Sarah

[sabreman]

Sponsorship is the key but I don't think this is happening at most clubs. I am not aware of any club or program in the DC area that is helping kids from a less privileged background get into the sport.

[RebelFencer]

Now--

I'm not saying that I'm going to treat any newbie decked out in FIE gear badly or not fence them or something (unless they're a jerk). I'm just saying that it's a little bothersome. Now when I say decked out I mean new Jacket, knickers, underarm protectors, top of the line shoes, bag, etc. An FIE mask is just common sense (or should be). But like I said, if they work their butts off then I'll have a lot of respect for them. Please don't confuse "irks me" with "i'm going to be a complete jerk to this person and ostracize them because they're more fortunate."

And by "suffering" and "paying dues" I was talking about wearing smelly club gear and all that that entails. No one should have to get a blade broken into them.

[smohrle]

I don't get it though, what is the problem with being decked out in the best gear? We have all new FIE gear (LP). I mean all of it. For us, it is more economical to purchase high quality gear the first go-around, instead of constantly replacing lower quality gear. Just because we are more well-off doesn't mean we are just going to throw money away when we don't have to...

Anyway, not trying to pick on you, but I don't agree and your opinion is not unusual. Not in your case (good for you ), but in many instances this opinion seems to go hand-and-hand with the other ones I mentioned.

But hey, this is what this thread is for, right? Get the underlying opinions out in the open....

Sarah

[wrdbrn]

Goodness Gracious... the best equipment for the job is important be you ballerina or epeeist. (by the way both cost just as much.) be you Auto Mechanic or Techno geek. As I parent I have seen many a chaparonee (I have chaped for eons... ) dis'd - did i get that right, or ditched.. yes i know the differernce. i digress. I have seen many a competitor looked down upon, eyes rolled at, whispered about when the assest weren't of the material kind. I have even seen coaches judge parents by their appearance... not to take the focus off the fencer, but many a parent is footing the bills...

I have yet to meet anyone that is long lived at our club that hasnt been totally accepting of anyone... young or old, club or personal equipment... I have though sadly seen a few folks breeze in from other fencing backgrounds and look at us and either bolt or just fade away.. Their loss... In any event its not about how much money, is about what you do with what you've got.

[esskreemr]

I could play the "I respect ability" card, but it's simply not completely true. What seperates a pro athlete from an amateur athlete? Is it just money? The amateur will most likely have to hold down a full-time job not related to his or her sport while finding the time and money to train. Not a perfect fit for the question, but I respect the abilities of those who deserve it, rich or poor.

Admiration is a different matter. If you take 2 athletes with the same accomplishments, do you admire them equally? I would most likely have more admiration for the one who had to work 40-50 hours a week while going to school then the one who's mommy paid for everything. Same accomplishments, different drives. Thank you Peter Westbrook for showing us it can be done.

[sabreman]

>>
Admiration is a different matter. If you take 2 athletes with the same accomplishments, do you admire them equally? I would most likely have more admiration for the one who had to work 40-50 hours a week while going to school then the one who's mommy paid for everything. Same accomplishments, different drives. Thank you Peter Westbrook for showing us it can be done.
>>

Agree with this 110%. PW is 'The Man'!

[MikeHarm]

I respect proven ability. When people win ratings with their coach taking all their matches from seeding to the finals (which I've seen before) I lose most of my respect for them as a fencer though.

[I_luv_saber]

I value respect of the person over the persons ability or upbringing. I would respect a terrible fencer, poor or rich, If I knew they were a good person. If your talking about respecting somebody's fencing, then I don't care if they are rich or poor. If your going to respect fencing, then respect fencing; if you're going to respect people, then respect people. It's hard to roll the different point's of view into one question of respect. There are fencers I have met who were extremely talanted, but were real jerks. I respect their fencing, but not them. The same goes the other way around. Great people, bad fencers.