What foil/sabre timings are in effect today?

[rsy]

Last year the Executive Committee of the USFA adopted the FIE provisional timing changes to foil & sabre. Because the FIE changes were provisional and only appled to the 2004-2005 season, the USFA decision similarly made the changes provisional and applied the changes only to the competitions in the 2004-2005 season which took place after 10/1/05. It is my understanding that that season ended on 7/31/05. Because the changes were provisional, the Appendix to the rules regarding timing for foil and sabre remained unchanged and still provides for the original foil and sabre timing.

If the 2004-2005 season ended on 7/31/05, the provisional changes have now expired and the original timings are back in effect. This is irrelevant to the FIE since the first FIE competition is not until October, but there are local competitions being held now in the US under the USFA rules. Which timing rules do these local competitions use in order to be a sanctioned competition so that rating changes can be given? Can a local organizer change the USFA rules on foil & sabre timing (i.e., use the expired new timing instead of the reinstated original timing) and still have a sanctioned competition that would permit new ratings to be earned?

-r

[DHCJr]

The season hasn't ended. The problem is what season are we talking about? The Divisional season ends before the Sectional season ends, which ends before the National season ends, which ends before the World season ends. If we look at the Junior, that won't end until the spring and that is the season the FIE was testing for Originally. It is still being tested for the Worlds in October and considering the USFA did this to prepare our fencers for FIE competitions, I don't think they will be changing back soon.

[downunder]

expect these changes to be ratified (or further modified) at Congress is November

[edew]

We have competitions beginning in September. The question is, which timing rules do we use? I think that's the gist of rsy's question.

I personally don't know and would like an answer.

[Goofy]

I found this in the 2005 USFA National News:

http://www.usfencing.org/Documents/N...005JOIssue.pdf

All divisional, sectional and collegiate competitions can be run using either the old or the new timing boxes, but the equipment must be the same for all fencers (with the possibility of using old equipment for the competition, and using the new timing boxes for the finals.) This information must be published prior to the event.

If the FIE decides to make a permanent change in the timing of the scoring apparatus then, from September 1, 2005 all national events and qualifying events WILL BE REQUIRED to use the new timing boxes. Divisional and sectional events will be allowed to use the old scoring equipment, but must make the fact clear on the entry forms. National team selection points will only be earned at events using the new timing boxes.

[Inquartata]

But HAS the FIE "decided to make a permanent change in the timing of the scoring apparatus"? Has it actually been voted on yet, or will it be by early September? And if not...

A very good question, Rsy.

[oiuyt]

The FIE has not yet decided to make the new timings permanent (and won't until at least November when the Congress meets in Doha). Which leaves us running under the first paragraph quoted, which specifies that either timing may be used but it must be pre-announced which (as opposed to the second paragraph, which specifies either timing may be used but it must be pre-announced if it's the old timing, a VERY minor modification).

Keeping announcing which timings you're going to use and you're fine.

-B :)

[DHCJr]

What I was trying to say, was the NAC's, I am sure will be run under the new timing. First as I said, they are not going back to the old timing when the Worlds will be held with the new timing. Also, will the USFA pay to have the machines chips replaced back to the old one.

[rsy]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

What I was trying to say, was the NAC's, I am sure will be run under the new timing. First as I said, they are not going back to the old timing when the Worlds will be held with the new timing. Also, will the USFA pay to have the machines chips replaced back to the old one.

DHCJr
- I agree with you that by October we will know what the outcome is. The issue is what about now. The minutes of the BoD meeting from 10/04 make it clear that the timing change was for the 2004-2005 season only and the Athlete's Handbook makes it equally clear that the USFA season end on 7/31 and begins on 8/1 of each year. It seems that the 10/04 BoD resolution expired on 7/31/05 and if that is true then right now, to have a USFA sanctioned competition, you have to have the scoring machines set to Appendix B timing, not the timing of the expired resolution.

Originally Posted by oiuyt

The FIE has not yet decided to make the new timings permanent (and won't until at least November when the Congress meets in Doha). Which leaves us running under the first paragraph quoted, which specifies that either timing may be used but it must be pre-announced which (as opposed to the second paragraph, which specifies either timing may be used but it must be pre-announced if it's the old timing, a VERY minor modification).

Keeping announcing which timings you're going to use and you're fine.

-B

Oiuyt
-What you are saying is logical and a very practical solution, but the language in the minutes seems to say that all of those provisions, including the right to choose between old or new timing as long as it is pre-announced, applied only to the 2004-2005 season and have now expired. If that resolution is no longer in effect, then there is no option available and only Appendix B timing can be used at a USFA sanctioned competition.

-r

[OROD]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Also, will the USFA pay to have the machines chips replaced back to the old one.

Bhahahahahahahhhha... man, I needed a good laugh!


.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by rsy

If that resolution is no longer in effect, then there is no option available and only Appendix B timing can be used at a USFA sanctioned competition.

I disagree.

Chapter II, Section 4, Subsection A, Paragraph (3):
All competitions shall be held with electrical equipment unless specifically identified as "non-electric" in the schedule.

If DRY events are allowed then surely events with variant timing (especially a timing allowed/required on the international/national level) are allowed with advance notice.

Next BoD meeting is 9/10-11. I'll look for an answer there if we don't have one prior to that.

-B :)