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This is nuts.
Smirnov wouldn't have died if the blade didn't break. The tip didn't go through the mask, the broken part after the foible did. There wasn't a foible to flex and absorb the energy. You can't compare a thrust with a broken blade to a flick.
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Cadet à Space
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Senior Member
Array 
Dark T
Your grasp of logic is right up there with Pons& Fleichmann. Space Cadet has superior logic, Spock would agree with him.
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"Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine" "Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine"
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Senior Member
Array
Oh Yeah, back to the thread. i use the cheapest crap I can find ( except chinese!) My last batch of vostoks from Blade were pretty darn whippy, I got used to them and am having a hard time with the stiffer blades. I guess you just adjust to whatever you have.
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"Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine" "Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine"
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What? Spock? That bastard is only half Vulcan. Find a real Vulcan and he would agree with me.
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Looking at the past posts, it all started with mango saying "i don't agree, most thrusts can't be made with the same force as a flick, because, most flicks are incorrectly executed and are mere slaps with the broadside of the weapon. I only get a bruise when my opponent is tired and sloppy and lands "flat" and off target."
Just to sort things out, there is more energy required by the arm to perform a flick because there is 1. the forward whip and 2. the snap back like in fly-fishing. In a thrust, there is just the forward extension of the arm.
However, since the tip is brought to the target with the body, there is more force at the tip of a thrust from the entire body moving forward. Depending on how much the blade flexes and distance when it hits the opponent is variable so sometimes there is more or less force when the thrust hits the opponent. A properly executed flick should be just enough to depress the spring to score. That's not a lot. An improperly executed flick is just a whippin' and can hurt more than a thrust. It's all moot.
Back to the topic, I don't like really stiff blades because they tend to be heavier. I'm not into flicking but I'll use it once in a while and the whippy blades tend to be lighter in weight.
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Cadet à Space
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why is it that NO ONE on this board knows how to flick?
space cadet: there should never be a snap back, it wastes time, leaves the attacker vulnerable and is totally unnecessary besides. As I said earlier, a flick is made with the forceful extension of the arm, and then you're supposed to halt the blades motion, causing the tip to land with the flexing of the foible. grrrrrrrrrr this is so frustrating...
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Senior Member
Array
Gabriel
Speak for yourself about not being able to flick. There are enough of us out there to annoy enough of you!
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"Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine" "Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine"
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To Gabriel,
Hmm, I'll watch some fencing video tapes and see how the top fencers do it. I'll write again tomorrow on this.
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Cadet à Space
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Senior Member
Array 
Gab' and Space caddy,
There should never be the backswing prior to a flick, but there is. The better the fencer is at flicking the less he needs to "load the foil"
Usually good fencers will have a little wind up every time, but they use it as part of their parry to disguise it and keep right of way.
I teach my students that there should be no back swing, but in reality, there often is. It's just that it is better to do without.
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www.geocities.com/strydermike http://www.geocities.com/strydermike
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Posting Hound
Array 
Yeah...the guys who hurt arent't usually the guys who just slap you with the flat; they're the ones who slap you with the flat AND wind up for the attack withthe blade behind their heads! OUCH!
The guys who are really good can take a parry (circular six, fer example) and snap down for the flick as soon as they've completed the parry...there's no wind up necessarry. Derek Snyder does it all the time, and the few times I've been whomped on by him, I don't feel the flicks are that hard.
'Course, he's so damnned fast he's going back to his en garde line by the time I notice that one baleful light staring at me.
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Sam Signorelli -- Boldly going forward...'cause I can't find reverse!
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Senior Member
Array
Hey Dark T
You run any experiment yet? Querying minds need to know.
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"Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine" "Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine"
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A "sharpened" foil will pierce through a 1/4" thick leather whether you stab it or flick it. So I think I'll save myself some trouble by not running the "experiment".
If you somehow failed to stab thru the leather the only possible scenario I can think of is that you hung the piece of leather in the air. If that is the case then the "experiemnt" proves nothing. You can have a car driving at 200 mi/hr and have it run right thru the leather and the leather will still be in once piece. Does that mean that speeding car does less damage than a flick? You have to pay attention to the details of your experiment, otherwise it will simply be unscientific. The leather needs to be fixed in place in order for this experient to be meanful. But then again, if that's the case I know the blade is gonna go thru.
Obviously my math didn't convince anyone, but it is the truth. The blade simply does not have enough of mass to be nearly as damaging.
[This message has been edited by DarkTransient (edited 05-01-2001).]
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Senior Member
Array
Hi dark T
Funny. I have the reverse position. I have done the experiment and I can't find a math geek to belive the results. Oh well.... "Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine"
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What is the greatest challenge a scientist has to face?
The answer to that question is my rely to you.
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Quit (no longer with us)
Array
this is absolutely ridiculose [insert grocho marx inflection and continue in his manner throughout]
flicking gentlemen, [flicking his cigar butt], is the name of the game, getting back to stip-hogs original question: what is a FlIcK, and HowDO I GetOnE?
Foist: buy a foil, hold it in your hand and using your wrist, pop the point of the foil TiP over your opponents blade and onto their target. SCHZAAAM. If the light goes off, you have a point, if not, you don't. Gentlemen, give the lady a $500 bonus for answering the secret question.
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To Gabriel,
Okay, after watching a tape, you are correct. The flick is the swinging motion of the upper arm so that it's straightening and then a stop, the foible and the tip continue in the same direction which causes the bend in the blade. The reverse fly-fishing-ish snapback is not necessary at all.
I'm rusty in my fencing knowledge. Thanks for posting about it.
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Cadet à Space
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The reason that flicks often seem to hurt more is that the foil is specifically designed to absorb the energy of a thrust. The blade flexes and allows the energy to be delivered over a longer period of time, lessening it's impact. A flick on the other hand has a far shorter period of contact and as such deliveres all of its energy at once. Also because of the nature of the flick the momentum of the foible has flexed the blade(indeed the blade is continuing to flex at the moment of impact), and this keeps the flexibility of the blade from absorbing the energy. I would suggest that you repeat your experiment with a real sword blade, one that does flex like a foil, the results will differ. I'll , assume that the leather is fixed in place if it isn't the experiment proves only that the flick is more capable of piercing leather strips hanging in the air. A man of strong and determined temper adheres tenaciously to his general resolutions, and is neither seduced by the allurments of pleasure, nor terrified by the menaces of pain; but keeps in view those distant persuits, by which he, at once, ensures his happiness and honor.
-David Hume
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To Nous,
What was the point of that?
A proper flick should hardly be felt. Therefore, if you perform the flick properly with a sharpened foil on a piece of leather, you should just be leaving a little scratch and not even come close to cutting through.
That's the whole point of getting a whippy blade for flicking.
Press your finger down on the tip of the weapon so that the spring depresses. That's the same amount of pressure you should feel at the tip when a flick lands on you. And with a jacket and lame on, you don't even feel it.
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Cadet à Space
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Senior Member
Array
Flicks hurt because they are thrown harder.
It has nothing to do with the mass of the blade. Bullets have little mass but high velocity and they do slightly more damage than thrusts.
Can you say "pointless discussion?" Sure I knew you could.
Question: If flicks usually hurt, and thrusts usually don't. Does that make flicking MORE realistic that thrusting?
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www.geocities.com/strydermike http://www.geocities.com/strydermike
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attila-
did you read my post? I said that people on this board (from their descriptions) do not know how to flick. Aside from myself, I think that Stryder is the only one who adequately explained the move. I was suggesting that YOU, attila, or not even you in general but other posters on this board do not understand the flick.
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