Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Li'l Bebe · 08-16-2005, 06:06 PM

I've only been fencing for about a year, and only attended one nationals tournament. Fortunately, my event was held on a Saturday, and not on a Sunday. My religious beliefs (I'm Mormon, LDS, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, whatever you wanna call us) prohibit me from fencing on Sundays. Many of my friends are Mormon too, and they've made the decision to still fence on Sundays even during tournaments, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to sacrifice my religion for fencing. Do any of you guys ever have problems fencing on Sunday?

D'Art · 08-16-2005, 06:13 PM

I have occasionally had trouble fencing on sundays due to religious experiences too. Thoguh I think that may be something to do with excessive alcohol comsumption on the saturday night

ReverseLunge · 08-16-2005, 06:15 PM

Why dont you just fence for Jesus? Somebody has to.

oso97 · 08-16-2005, 06:16 PM

Nope. No problems here.

Pick your obessions. If they conflict, you'll have to give one or the other up. Welcome to life.

But then, I've always been more of a subscriber to the "Love your neighbor as yourself" mode rather than the list of "Thou shall nots." Look carefully at the "thou shall nots." Are they for some good reason to foster equitable and healthy relationships between people or are they a form of control?

If they fall in to the latter category, then they're not directives from any God that >I< want to worship.

Be flexible. Be creative. Its rarely as black and while as we make it out to be.

Zilverzmurfen · 08-16-2005, 07:31 PM

I remember there was a discussion about this about a year ago...

Being a non-religious person I find it strange that your religion prevents you from fencing on sundays.

What more than physical activity are you prohibited from doing on sundays? Is there anything you are encouraged to do on sundays? (Praying springs to mind but I'm interested in knowing other things besides that.)

fencergal33 · 08-16-2005, 07:44 PM

My club has a monthly tournament, and saber is always fenced on Sundays. After all, it is "the holy weapon."

But seriously......we had this conflict with one of the parents of one of our teenage fencers. Fence in tournament once a month, or go to church? The father decided that the values the kid learns as a competitive fencer (ie. sportsmanship, athleticism, leadership, teamwork, etc.) are akin to those he would be learning in church. Therefore, once a month he is allowed to fence instead of church.

Good luck with your decision.

pacer · 08-16-2005, 09:38 PM

I was in a symphony orchestra once upon a time and when some of our members would complain about dress rehearsals being on Sunday, our conductor would always say that "work is worship and labor is holy". While I have known a fencer who would/ could not compete on a Sunday, I have personally always thought it is what is in a person's heart that counts. Can you find a different service time so you could accomodate both?

DHCJr · 08-16-2005, 10:52 PM

What you have said is strange to me. The reason I say this is because of the Hake'N'Slashe tournament in Victorville, CA. Most years, there was fencing on both Saturday and Sunday. This was started and ran by a Mormon. I will need to check with Kent about this and how he did it.

mrbiggs · 08-16-2005, 11:25 PM

Many, maybe most, one day tournaments are done on Saturday.

If you live in or near a large division, or only go to sectional or national tournaments, you will probably go to many events held over several days. If you fence foil and epee, it is very unlikely that they will be held on the same day. In other words, fencing several weapons might help you overcome this problem.

ThatReallyHurt · 08-17-2005, 12:16 AM

I haven't heard of that particular recommendation that you mention. Where does it stem from - does it cover competition of any kind?

Li'l Bebe · 08-17-2005, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

I remember there was a discussion about this about a year ago...

Being a non-religious person I find it strange that your religion prevents you from fencing on sundays.

What more than physical activity are you prohibited from doing on sundays? Is there anything you are encouraged to do on sundays? (Praying springs to mind but I'm interested in knowing other things besides that.)

Well, generally it's to not do things that you do every other day of the week, like go to amusement parks or shop. We try to spend a day attending church meetings (it's at least a 3 hour block, and we don't hire priests or other church workers, each memeber of the congregation has a special job, so sometimes church is longer depending on your job) and when we're not at church, listen to quiet religious music, read scriptures, write letters, sleep, just kind of take the day to spend the day with family at home. Many other devout Mormons who are atheletes don't compete on Sunday, (One guy even refused to be in the NFL because their games are on Sunday) and none have ever regretted it.

Li'l Bebe · 08-17-2005, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacer

I was in a symphony orchestra once upon a time and when some of our members would complain about dress rehearsals being on Sunday, our conductor would always say that "work is worship and labor is holy". While I have known a fencer who would/ could not compete on a Sunday, I have personally always thought it is what is in a person's heart that counts. Can you find a different service time so you could accomodate both?

Well for Mormons, it's not just about the service, but using the whole day to think about Heavenly Father (God) and Jesus. Plus, the main time I have to fence on Sundays (because I'm from Utah, and everyone there is Mormon just about, so we don't host local competitions on Sunday) are at national events, and it's very difficult to find a congregation. However, that's a good perspective, and I'll think about that

DHCJr · 08-17-2005, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Many, maybe most, one day tournaments are done on Saturday.

In Southern California most USFA competitions are on Sunday. This is so there is no conflict with the Collegiate and High School competitions.

Army Fencer · 08-17-2005, 02:13 AM

Li'l Bebe--Watch Chariots of Fire, if you have not done so already.

I find the balace between religion and fencing very precarious, and often, you have to make decisions on which is more important to you at different periods in your life. Of course, if you you truly believe in God, He has to be first in your life always.

Personally, I take what Jesus said about the Sabbath to heart--that God made the Sabbath for man. It's a day of rest and it's become a day of communion with other members of the church. If you can do those things on another day, you're still fulfilling what God wanted. Mormonism doesn't allow that degree of freedom, I know, but it's worth thinking about.

Or you can take it another way: if you trust God and believe that He is working in your life, He can bless your fencing, even without going to every national tournament. And if He doesn't, then He has other plans for you, and you should trust Him for that, too.

Army Fencer · 08-17-2005, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I will need to check with Kent about this and how he did it.

Kent's a bit unique.

Have you seen him or talked to him in awhile? I keep trying to call him, but I can't get through.

Gav · 08-17-2005, 06:28 AM

You've got to be kidding me?

Look. If your religion is that important; don't attend any tournament that offends your belief. That's it. There should be no crisis of faith. Just sort your priorities out.

Pauli · 08-17-2005, 07:33 AM

I agree with GAV.

Though, I'll never understand how religion can prohibit you from doing things that make you happy. But then, I find it difficult to understand religion and it's various practices in general. Though, that's totally another point.

DHCJr · 08-17-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

Kent's a bit unique.

Have you seen him or talked to him in awhile? I keep trying to call him, but I can't get through.

He has been asking about you. He has been gone a few weeks for a trip through the far east. He just got back yesterday. Try tonight, he would love to hear from you. With 4 kids and his involvement with the church, dial-up connection for the computer, the phone is being used a lot.

mrbiggs · 08-17-2005, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

In Southern California most USFA competitions are on Sunday. This is so there is no conflict with the Collegiate and High School competitions.

Oops! My mistake, I meant to say that many or most are done on Sunday.

Inquartata · 08-17-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Li'l Bebe

Well, generally it's to not do things that you do every other day of the week, like go to amusement parks or shop.... listen to quiet religious music, read scriptures, write letters, sleep, just kind of take the day to spend the day with family at home.

You don't sleep every other day of the week? So I take it you don't eat, shower, talk, or move on Sundays....

Seriously, though, I have known observant Jews who wouldn't fence on Saturdays. You just can't please everyone. But as I see it, fencing is not like toiling in the fields or other banausic activities. It may be stenuous, but I still find it very restful, as in "on the seventh day he rested"...

( Fortunately the issue is moot for me, heathen that I am.

)