Rusting Rivets

[HDG]

I'm going to be buying a new mask pretty soon [waiting for LP's new one with the D30 foam bib], but in the meantime, my current mask's rivets are rusting. They are nowhere near rusted out, and they're all still in place, but I just wanted to know if rusty rivets by themselves are enough to get a mask failed even though it's otherwise alright.

[yeoldearmourer]

Put a ohm meter on them and see what they read if 5 ohm or less your fine. Most of the time they will passed. The only reason a mask fail is the lacked of conductive. But most local tourney don't check sabre mask anyhow.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

The only reason a mask fail is the lacked of conductive.

Oh, you know, for being unsafe. :)

Without being able to see the mask, I'd suggest that it's probably merely a bit of surface rust and unlikely to affect the structural integrity of your mask to any significant degree. Wouldn't be a bad idea to take a sanding block to the rust to slow down the process.

-B :)

[yeoldearmourer]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Oh, you know, for being unsafe.

Without being able to see the mask, I'd suggest that it's probably merely a bit of surface rust and unlikely to affect the structural integrity of your mask to any significant degree. Wouldn't be a bad idea to take a sanding block to the rust to slow down the process.

-B

You right I was half a sleep forgot the 12k punch test

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by HDG

I'm going to be buying a new mask pretty soon [waiting for LP's new one with the D30 foam bib], but in the meantime, my current mask's rivets are rusting. They are nowhere near rusted out, and they're all still in place, but I just wanted to know if rusty rivets by themselves are enough to get a mask failed even though it's otherwise alright.

First, there is no reference to whether this is a Sabre mask or a Foil/Epee mask.

If there is rust, the strength of the metal is disappearing. In the extreme, the rivets essentially fall out.

But why is there rust? Probably because you keep your mask in a swamp, otherwise known as a closed fencing bag complete with wet uniform. Open the bag at night, hang up the wet uniform, make sure the shoes and mask have access to fresh air. By the way, this will reduce rust on your weapons also.

If it is a Foil/Epee mask, minor rust doesn't affect performance.

If it a Sabre mask, as pointed out elsewhere, it can cause failure because of increased resistance. If the metal arch between the front and rear half of the mesh rusts, that can also cause excessive resistance.

Abrasive foam blocks, such as used in refinishing furniture, can be used to remove rust from weapons, rivets, and elsewhere. Best when used frequently. But don't sand off the conductivity of Lame on a Sabre mask.

[parrythis]

For removing rust from a small area like a rivet, you might try naval jelly. I have actually used it to restore entire blades, but it is ideal for spot rust removal.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

First, there is no reference to whether this is a Sabre mask or a Foil/Epee mask.

If there is rust, the strength of the metal is disappearing. In the extreme, the rivets essentially fall out.

But why is there rust? Probably because you keep your mask in a swamp, otherwise known as a closed fencing bag complete with wet uniform. Open the bag at night, hang up the wet uniform, make sure the shoes and mask have access to fresh air. By the way, this will reduce rust on your weapons also.

It is a foil & epee mask. I DO NOT keep my mask "in a swamp"; it comes out of my bag as soon as I get home as do my jacket, lame and underarm protector. I use separate bags for weapons and clothing. It is unfortunately a Blue Gauntlet mask, and as I have learned subsequently, they are prone to this very problem.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by parrythis

For removing rust from a small area like a rivet, you might try naval jelly....

Not Army jelly....Marine jelly...Air Force jelly...or even Coast Guard jelly?
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oh....wait...wrong navel....never mind!

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by HDG

It is a foil & epee mask. I DO NOT keep my mask "in a swamp"; it comes out of my bag as soon as I get home as do my jacket, lame and underarm protector. I use separate bags for weapons and clothing. It is unfortunately a Blue Gauntlet mask, and as I have learned subsequently, they are prone to this very problem.

I noticed he is from Miami. I take back everything I said about a swamp. I am not sure about using Naval Jelly on a Sabre mask. Hard to keep it off the Lame. The phosphoric acid active ingredient could do a bad job. But great for blades.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

I noticed he is from Miami. I take back everything I said about a swamp. I am not sure about using Naval Jelly on a Sabre mask. Hard to keep it off the Lame. The phosphoric acid active ingredient could do a bad job. But great for blades.

Yeah, we are pretty swampy down here, but I keep the a/c icy cold and the humidity down. Speeds up the drying off a bit.

Probably not surprising that the only rivets with which I'm having problems are the ones connecting the bib to the frame. I baby all my equipment, but I don't know what else I can do. Maybe sweat less? Hmmm...

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by HDG

Yeah, we are pretty swampy down here, but I keep the a/c icy cold and the humidity down. Speeds up the drying off a bit.

Probably not surprising that the only rivets with which I'm having problems are the ones connecting the bib to the frame. I baby all my equipment, but I don't know what else I can do. Maybe sweat less? Hmmm...

Don't worry about it for local events. Sabre cuts usually contact along a line. For NACs, if you don't have a dremel, put a pencil stub into an electric drill and buff with that. A typewriter pencil style eraser would be better. Or hold the eraser in your hand.

[mollusk]

Originally Posted by HDG

Yeah, we are pretty swampy down here, but I keep the a/c icy cold and the humidity down. Speeds up the drying off a bit.

Probably not surprising that the only rivets with which I'm having problems are the ones connecting the bib to the frame. I baby all my equipment, but I don't know what else I can do. Maybe sweat less? Hmmm...

Those BG masks also rust at the rivets up here in Gainesville, too.

If you are handy you can drill out the old rivets and pop rivet new STEEL rivets back in. Don't use aluminum rivets as they will not last when in contact with the steel mesh in an acidic, wet environment (sweat). Stainless steel pop rivets would be even better, but you can't get them (or a proper "gun") at your local ACE hardware. It would be better to spend the $'s on a good mask instead. The steel rivets will last about as long as your original rivets.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by mollusk

Those BG masks also rust at the rivets up here in Gainesville, too.

If you are handy you can drill out the old rivets and pop rivet new STEEL rivets back in. Don't use aluminum rivets as they will not last when in contact with the steel mesh in an acidic, wet environment (sweat). Stainless steel pop rivets would be even better, but you can't get them (or a proper "gun") at your local ACE hardware. It would be better to spend the $'s on a good mask instead. The steel rivets will last about as long as your original rivets.

Very important that you use the backer plates (glorified washers) that go with the rivets. If you pop rivet through just the mesh, the mesh will spread and not hold. The backer plates are very close tolerance with the rivets and will hold. I like to bash the inside part of the rivet with a hammer to improve hold and to avoid anything that might scratch the wearer.

My experience with using three/sixteenths inch aluminum pop rivets with masks has been that they last and hold well, although they do show corrosion. I would not use one/eighth inch aluminum pop rivets to hold masks together.

[fencerbill]

Since I wrote the last entry yesterday I have encountered an FIE mask where aluminum pop rivets rotted away. The mask is dated 2003. One rivet on one side and two rivets on the other side have corroded and separated. Then the Lame folded away leaving a very dangerous situation. The Lame was also glued to the mesh but glue won't hold without the mechanical support of the rivets.