why is your primary weapon superior to the other two?

**HilandDoug** · 08-12-2002 11:59 AM

They say fencing is a rich man's game. I think that's not necessarily true, as I know many poor fencers!

**Gav** · 08-12-2002 03:12 PM

Epeemike: It's ok about the post. I did miss the point about 2 months of footwork. I was reading it in the wee small hours (I'm doing night shift at the moment) and sometimes you just don't pick things up.

**135711** · 08-12-2002 05:45 PM

the expereinced fencers should say something if they feel that their time is being wasted. but, contrary to what you may believe to be true, many experienced fencers enjoy reviewing the basics with a novice, if they feel the novice is not greedily sopping up a bunch of stuff. for example, maybe spendning a few minutes with someone to understand something, and then working on it. i don't think any expereinced fencer has learned by themselves did they?

**epeefencer74** · 08-12-2002 05:50 PM

BS! the FIRST time you see it, as an uninitiated member of the public, you do not see the nuances. you see two guys bouncing around, and occasionally taking pot shots. eventually, one of 'em "gets lucky" and scores on one of those pot shots.

newbies specifically do NOT appreciate the vast amounts of time in epee that people aren't getting hit.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Please remember that I am talking about a newbie's perspective there...<hr /></blockquote>Funny, I was about to tell you the same thing.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />When you've been immersed in fencing for a while, you're not the same person<hr /></blockquote>and THEN I can understand how you might find the other two more enjoyable to watch than sabre.

I invite any others to offer their opinions on this subject.

-m[/QB][/QUOTE]

I have to agree with epeemike81 on this even though I'm a dedicated epeeist myself. When I first started fencing, sabre was the most interesting to watch because of the amount of violence involved

and also maybe the action of the blade is more visible.

**epeefencer74** · 08-12-2002 06:02 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by oiuyt:

While it's a commonly heard expression that the best training for fencing is fencing, it's also true that the best training for sabre is sabre, the best training for epee is epee, etc. The largest benefit to starting everyone in foil (IMO) is that it makes the job of the teacher/coach that much easier. It is NOT beneficial to the student.

I'm in favor of getting new students into their intended weapon fairly early on in the process although I acknowledge several (good)reasons why this might not be done.

And on (one of) the tangential threads in this discussion, I'm a sabre fencer who most certainly was NOT pushed or forced into sabre (Sorry, Veeco).

-B

(who's feeling REALLY long-winded tonight....)[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>A few years ago, the club which I coach at had a shift in training philosophy. We used to teach all our first year student's foil, b/4 we decided which weapon they should specialize in. Now we do one year of footwork b/4 we let the kid choose his weapon. If they are undecided, they can spend time with each group to get a better understanding. As far as crossing over of weapons, we tend to discourage that till they are older and their primary weapon is at least passable. BTW we train kids from 13yrs up and I'm one of three coaches.

**Inquartata** · 08-12-2002 07:06 PM

Wow, a year without holding a weapon?!

And attrition from boredom isn't doesn't approach 99%?

What's your secret? Are you teaching in a correctional facility?

loch, I'm afraid I have to call you on that "ease of maintenance" angle. Your epee blades still have wires, glue, springs and screws. Sabre blades have none of these. The point people at my club seem to spend half their time sitting on the floor surrounded by tools and itsy bity parts, tinkering with their weapons. The sabre fencers just fence...

**epeefencer74** · 08-12-2002 07:18 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Inquartata:
Wow, a year without holding a weapon?!

And attrition from boredom isn't doesn't approach 99%?

What's your secret? Are you teaching in a correctional facility?

loch, I'm afraid I have to call you on that "ease of maintenance" angle. Your epee blades still have wires, glue, springs and screws. Sabre blades have none of these. The point people at my club seem to spend half their time sitting on the floor surrounded by tools and itsy bity parts, tinkering with their weapons. The sabre fencers just fence...<hr /></blockquote>No better yet I teach in a secondary school, the students can't quit unless the school lets them. Once they join they are stuck with us *buhahaha*

, I agree with you that sabre is the most maintenance free weapon. loch just try putting in a grub screw for your epee when you've just finished a bout.

**epeefencer74** · 08-12-2002 08:09 PM

This topic has given something to think about. My take on it is that human beings generally find it hard to be good at more than one thing at a time. Therefore there is a tendency to concentrate training to one weapon, and because more time is given to one weapon over the other two, it natraully becomes the preferd weapon, and the fencer becomes more proficient in the primary than the other 2 weapons.

**D'Artagnan1673** · 08-13-2002 05:57 AM

That seems to be the case for me. For me, why would I want to be mediocre in foil, epee and sabre, when I good be good at epee.

**D'Artagnan1673** · 08-13-2002 06:27 AM

Here's something that I've been bouncing around in my head for a while. I am interested in starting a high school fencing club at the district that I work it. The more I listen to some of the more experienced fencers, the more I think that they are right about the disadvantages of starting a future sabreur or epeeist in foil first. Also, I was looking over Fencing, Ancient Art and Modern Sport the other night. C.L. de Beaumont even admitted that there had been considerable success made by fencers who started out in their specialized weapon, although most should start with foil. I remember a former club member who came to visit about a year ago. We played around in epee ( he was a solid C ) he told me that I was fencing the weapon too much like a foilist in that I parried when I should have coutered. Now I'm getting out of that, but the habit is still there. Also, for me, my studnets would benefit more from my epee instruction than my foil, since I know more about epee and fence it better.

**lochinvar** · 08-13-2002 12:34 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Inquartata:
 loch, I'm afraid I have to call you on that "ease of maintenance" angle. Your epee blades still have wires, glue, springs and screws. Sabre blades have none of these. The point people at my club seem to spend half their time sitting on the floor surrounded by tools and itsy bity parts, tinkering with their weapons. The sabre fencers just fence...<hr /></blockquote>...and spend...and spend...and argue...and spend some more... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

The "ease of maintenance" statement was actually made vis-a-vis foil. You're absolutely right--there's nothing easier to maintain than a stiff car antenna with a rubber handle and a cut-out tin can wrapped around the bottom. [read: "saber"]

**Saber-Psycho** · 08-18-2002 09:44 PM

D'Artagnan,
Why don't you try asking them what they like?
You have to appraise them, if they're not so much as vicious, but very, very competitive, yes, you guessed it! Saber!

If they're more patient, umm hmm Epee!

And the really weird ones go to foil.

So basically it's just the person and what's best for them.
Don't try to force a weapon on a person, if you have someone who is not that motivated and if the weapon that you give them isn't the best one for them, they will probably quit before they start another weapon.

**D'Artagnan1673** · 08-19-2002 06:57 AM

Well, the major problem with sabre is that I know nothing about it. I know plenty of traditional foil, but little of the modern style. The only weapon that I know well enough to do any instruction in is epee, and even that one is debateable.

**Saber-Psycho** · 08-19-2002 05:53 PM

Do you want a hobby club? Or do you want to start a serious club?
If you want to have a competitive club, you should probably get a real saber coach. If you don't want to, if you're a good enough fencer you should be able
to coast.

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