History question: what about Spain?

[El Chucko]

Just out of curiosity, can anyone explain the conspicuous absence of Spain in the development of "mainstream" fencing?

We all know about the French school, and the Italian school, and the contributions of Germany, Hungary, the USSR, etc., etc.... But why weren't Iberians (Spain/Portugal) involved in the original FIE or the development of the modern sport?

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

Because those countries didn't do as much to develop fencing?

[VERITAS]

That is a very interesting question. The Spanish school of fencing is quite archaic and apparantly never evolved into a modern style the way the french school and (to some extent) the italian. The mysterious circle evidently never caught on outside of spain.

There apparantly is spanish rapier, smallsword, and saber, as well as cane, swordstick and knifefighting.

Check out Maestro Martinez's website, as he is currently the only master of the spanish school.

[Christopher J Umbs]

Well, I just finished taking a 3 day seminar in Spanish fencing. My humble guess would be that they just couldn't agree with the FIE (or whatever it was called at the time) rules as they were being formed. The French and Italians used to drive each other crazy because one wanted to include the upper arm as target in foil and one didn't. Since Spain really never lost it's circular style, I could see how they just wouldn't have been interested in some silly vulgate (meaning non-Spanish) game.

[Sildar]

There is another factor here as well, specific to Spanish history; considering that Spanish government was radically altered several times in the early 19th century, upper class life got shifted around quite a bit. Little things like the Bourbons invading and the temporary overthrow of the aristocracy led to changes in Spanish fencing, namely an enormous increase in the popularity of the French school over the native Spanish systems. There were several masters who continued to teach the old Spanish systems and who derided the French foil as a wussy weapon for fops which was poorly suited to real sword combat, but they seem to have closed up shop when the popularity of fencing as a sport eclipsed the popularity of fencing as training for swordfighting.

There was some Spanish influence in the early 20th century though, as there are a few fencing books which speak of three types of grips: French, Spanish and Italian. Spanish foil technique at this time seems to have been a mix of French and Italian influences with perhaps a few Spanish innovations...

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I think the question in point doesnt have anything to do with the spanish school of fencing, but moreso, why isnt spain a presence in sport fencing?

[Inquartata]

As well ask why Crete and Ireland aren't---the thusting sword was basically invented in those places, back in the Bronze Age.

The major powers in fencing today all had duelling traditions. From what I've read Spain, though it had a rich fencing tradition, seems to have been peculiar in that duelling was not very widespread. The thinking about honor seems to have been a bit different there, essentially running more to hiring someone to assassinate those who challenged or insulted one. Sullying ones own hands with the blood of a social inferior appears to have been viewed with distaste, while of course killing a social superior openly was just plain dangerous...