Parents

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

What a crock, they dont have to live his life, he does. He should make it the life that he wants to live, not some compromise of his wants and his parents fantasy.

Sorry to laugh at you, your earlier comment just struck me as funny. I agree Zasha's life is hers to live. Part of the job of being a parent is helping their learn to make decisions on their own. Zasha is at an age where she is making most of her decisions on her own.

However, unless she is paying for her education herself, this is a joint decision. It is not unusual for her parents have terms asscociated with their money.

Let's look at this differently. What if someone other than her parents offered to pay for her education, schools supplies and housing while she went to school, and they had certain conditions attached? She would examine the offer and either accept or decline based on whether she thought the terms were acceptable.

This is no different. No one is taking away her freedom. Her parents are generously offering her a chance to go to school. She just needs to fine tune the offer so she feels comfortable with it.

[cornflower]

I agree with Fencergrl in this one.

I don't think wanting a fencing school is completely unreasonable as long as you are sure that the school is right for you. If you are completely sure, then the main thing you have to deal with is your parents. You have to stroke their pride and reassure them. If your parents refuse to allow you to go to the school you want, then there's still a lot of other options. You can do anything!!

[Maeve_Mari]

When looking through the college board site (or other college search sites) if you put in a specific requirement, such as fencing, or psychonuclearphysiology, it will exclude from your results any college that does not specifically cite that item. By doing this, you are limiting yourself, at this point in your search, from seeing numbers of colleges which may in fact be very appealing and suitable. It's better to keep your search requirements broad at first, so you can see a spectrum of colleges and evaluate them on a number of general preferences. Then when you have narrowed your list down to your favorites - based on geography, size, religious affiliation or not, etc., then you can make your final selections based on more specific requirements you might have... like fencing.

I thnk what they want you to do it to not limit the broad spectrum of colleges before you get a sense of what's out there.

There are many colleges that might not have fencing programs because the fencing program in the community more than fits the requirement. A search for colleges that only have fencing as a sport or club wouldnt make the list.

[Djej]

Originally Posted by Zasha

as some of you may have gathered, i am not the highest authority in my home. i have parents, to which i am legally binded. normally, there is little or no friction. but there is now.
they want me to stop fencing.
i'm looking at colleges, and their main argument is that only considering those with fencing is that, "it limits the options too much." i know i'll never fence for princeton, but i have good marks. how do i explain to them that taking away my main activity outside of academics would be a very very bad thing?

You need to know what your future is. I suspect it isn't as an Olympic fencer, or this would already be known at your age. So you need to decide what you want to do in life (and earn lots of lovely money you can spend on fencing).

Then you decide which college you need for that (and if there's a good fencing club nearby or on campus).

Another thought, if you really are a budding Olympic fencer, how about going to college abroad? US college fencing isn't really considered a springboard for the international scene anyway. If you go to college in Paris say, you have two Olympic fencing epée clubs to chose from (you can even fence with a reigning Olympic team champion at ours ). And a foil one, which is actually a college club (you'd even get money off the subscription...). There's probably sabre too, but I don't know about that.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Zasha

they want me to stop fencing.
i'm looking at colleges, and their main argument is that only considering those with fencing is that, "it limits the options too much." i know i'll never fence for princeton, but i have good marks. how do i explain to them that taking away my main activity outside of academics would be a very very bad thing?

Zasha,
This may sound weird being a parent myself but, you can always go to college. You can't always be young.
Unless you have a definite path and know exactly what major to choose, being a fencer in college is a great distraction.
Women in sports are less likely to drink, party and get into trouble.. You will have a built in group of people to hang around with right at the beginning.
Most fencing clubs have a lot of support for students so you can start off college with a group of people with your same interest. They provide tutors and orientation.
Your parents should seriously rethink this issue.
Fencing also looks very kewl on college applications.

[Fencing Mom]

Originally Posted by Djej

You need to know what your future is. I suspect it isn't as an Olympic fencer, or this would already be known at your age. So you need to decide what you want to do in life

Hmmm. Let me disagree here. You don't need to know what your future is and you don't need to decide what you want to do in life. And if you are entering your senior year and are about to start the college application process, you surely don't need that kind of pressure. It's okay and probably a good thing to be open to different study fields. However, I do also suspect that you are not aiming for the Olympics, otherwise your parents should already be a part of your fencing support system.

So, I'm going to assume you want to keep fencing in your life but not necessarily at an elite level. As others have said, don't forget to include schools in cities with active fencing clubs as well as schools with clubs and varsity teams. That should be a pretty wide range of schools. Find two or three schools on that list that seem to fit what you're aiming for educationally and find out all you can about the schools. Ask questions about the schools' fencing programs on this board. If you still like what you hear, talk to you parents about the schools and apply, just don't mention fencing for a while.

After you've been accepted to a fencing school, you can talk to your parents about fencing. By this time they should be able to see what a good school it is for you and how you didn't let fencing be you only determining factor.

Good luck. I have a kid fencing in college and a non-fencer kid about to start college next month. Senior year and the application process is very stressful. Your parents sound like they are understandably nervous about what's ahead. College should be an exciting time of life. I bet that if you use tact and patience, your parents will let fencing be a part of that excitement.

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by Djej

You need to know what your future is. I suspect it isn't as an Olympic fencer, or this would already be known at your age.

Hmmm... I didn't decide that I seriously wanted to pursue the Olympics until first year of medical school. I'm going to have to disagree.

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

Hmmm... I didn't decide that I seriously wanted to pursue the Olympics until first year of medical school. I'm going to have to disagree.

I was going to point that out on your behalf, but decided that the issue really isnt whether Zasha has the talent to become an Olympic fencer, just that her parents dont want her to limit her options at this early point in her life.

Army is a perfect example of how "it's not over till it's over!"

[parrythis]

[quote=Fencing Mom]You don't need to know what your future is and you don't need to decide what you want to do in life. QUOTE]

I have to agree with Fencing Mom here. You can't know what lies in your future. I frequently point out to my teenagers that most everyone's priorities change throughout their lives. Today, I am a different person than I was 15 years ago. 15 years ago, I was a different person than I was 30 years ago, and so on. (don't ask how many times that works for me ) People frequently prepare for one thing in life and are later stunned to find that they are doing something quite different.

"Life is what happens when you make other plans."

Even though you don't know what your future holds, you have an idea of what your strengths are. You can study fields that capitalize on your strengths. The key is to not limit yourself right now. Keep an open mind and study a variety of things. The things that you study now will come back and be important later in life at the most unexpected times.

So how does this relate to your initial question? I guess what I am trying to say is that you should not limit yourself by choosing a school based on your current interests. Choose a school that gives you the most opportunity to build on ALL of your strengths, not just fencing. If you are serious about fencing, you will have decades of time to explore your passion. When you are 50 and still fencing, looking back on your life you will realize that taking a few years out and fencing under less than ideal conditions while you are attending school will be just a drop in the bucket of time.

[Djej]

Originally Posted by Fencing Mom

Hmmm. Let me disagree here. You don't need to know what your future is and you don't need to decide what you want to do in life. And if you are entering your senior year and are about to start the college application process, you surely don't need that kind of pressure. It's okay and probably a good thing to be open to different study fields. However, I do also suspect that you are not aiming for the Olympics, otherwise your parents should already be a part of your fencing support system.

So, I'm going to assume you want to keep fencing in your life but not necessarily at an elite level. As others have said, don't forget to include schools in cities with active fencing clubs as well as schools with clubs and varsity teams. That should be a pretty wide range of schools. Find two or three schools on that list that seem to fit what you're aiming for educationally and find out all you can about the schools. Ask questions about the schools' fencing programs on this board. If you still like what you hear, talk to you parents about the schools and apply, just don't mention fencing for a while.

After you've been accepted to a fencing school, you can talk to your parents about fencing. By this time they should be able to see what a good school it is for you and how you didn't let fencing be you only determining factor.

Good luck. I have a kid fencing in college and a non-fencer kid about to start college next month. Senior year and the application process is very stressful. Your parents sound like they are understandably nervous about what's ahead. College should be an exciting time of life. I bet that if you use tact and patience, your parents will let fencing be a part of that excitement.

I think you do. Otherwise you do like my best friend, chose computing, which he hates, and drop out after three years with no degree, and a 15 000 pound student debt. If you want to be a doctor or a lawyer, very few people are going to be able to do that having just taken a degree in geography. If you DON'T know what you want to do, you need to take that into account too and do something broad like English, science or languages.

Just because a kid wants to fence doesn't mean they don't want to be a high flyer in another domain.

Also, some occupations are stressful, and are competitive in themselves, so saying young people don't need stress is unhelpful in my opinion, young people tend to thrive on it, and for some occupations, it's obligatory.

[Djej]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

Hmmm... I didn't decide that I seriously wanted to pursue the Olympics until first year of medical school. I'm going to have to disagree.

You may not have known it, but you knew whether you had or did not have the capacity (or people round you did). I'm sorry, but many, most people just don't have the capacity, and they just have to accept that. You also didn't win (unless I'm mistaken). The advice I'm giving is in the case this kid wants to win. If you're going to get serious about fencing, you need a top notch coach, and to work several hours a day, if you had that in your medical school without going anywhere, then you were very lucky. It could be that you need to leave your country if you can't get that at home. You want to be good at something, you get the best in the world.


Remember competing against the best fencers in the world means competing against people who are for the most part majoring in physical education.

[Djej]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

I was going to point that out on your behalf, but decided that the issue really isnt whether Zasha has the talent to become an Olympic fencer, just that her parents dont want her to limit her options at this early point in her life.

Army is a perfect example of how "it's not over till it's over!"

Everything is always possible. But the truth is for most people, it won't be. Which is why advice to Zacha should be either: you want to be an Olympic fencer, you need to be chosing your school 100 percent for fencing, and unless you're a sabreur, that means leaving the US. Or you need to choose a college which will give you the kind of education you will need for your future career, where you can also fence.

Simple really. But telling the kid that she should choose her school according to a leisure fencing activity is just bad advice.

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Djej

Everything is always possible. But the truth is for most people, it won't be. Which is why advice to Zacha should be either: you want to be an Olympic fencer, you need to be chosing your school 100 percent for fencing, and unless you're a sabreur, that means leaving the US. Or you need to choose a college which will give you the kind of education you will need for your future career, where you can also fence.

Simple really. But telling the kid that she should choose her school according to a leisure fencing activity is just bad advice.

Point is that in a sport like fencing, college fencing isnt a requirement to the Olympic Way... Army's choice in college, likely wasn't made soley for it's fencing options and now, years out of college, he's on the road. I'm saying you can make your way with or without a NCAA college fencing program.

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Djej

Remember competing against the best fencers in the world means competing against people who are for the most part majoring in physical education.

I have to disagree. I'm quite certain if you surveyed the world's top fencers, the vast majority of them didn't major in P.E. to acheive their career pursuits!

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I applied to 8 schools-- several had club teams, several had NOTHING, one was (i think) tolerably close to good fencing, and one had a div3 team.

my parents were VERY scared i was going to pick a school based on fencing-- which was part of the reason i applied to schools that didn't have fencing....

and if i had wanted to go to UMass, it would have been an uphill battle, because my parents would have assumed that the only reason i wanted to go was the fencing. which might have been true.

in reality, the two last colleges i was really picking between were Wellesley and Smith, and i looked at a variety of different things about both schools. Housing, social life, dining, classes, personality, and fencing. Smith was better for me in every way possible. when i was able to explain the myriad of reasons i wanted to go besides fencing, my parents were fine with me going there.


don't eliminate a school because it's a club team, or because it doesn't have a very active team... or any team at all.... those schools might be an excellent match for you, and more importantly, it'll keep your parents off your back for a while if you agree to look at schools that don't have fencing if they look like they'd be a good match for you in other ways.

but they should come to terms with the fact that just like the dining, housing, social life, etc, fencing WILL BE A FACTOR. and it can't and shouldn't be THE factor---- (i know people who have been miserable, transfered, and then quit fencing altogether because of picking a school based on fencing)....... but it really is a factor.

[Fencergrl]

Great advice MP!

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

I was going to point that out on your behalf, but decided that the issue really isnt whether Zasha has the talent to become an Olympic fencer, just that her parents dont want her to limit her options at this early point in her life.

You're absolutely right; I just felt like being contrary and blowing holes in bad arguments. I also know that I'm very much the exception, rather than the rule. But if you're committed to something, anything is possible.

What's funny is that if I had gone to an NCAA school, I might not be on the path I'm on right now.

We haven't head much from Zasha since this thread has started. I think we need more information before we can give her much more advice.

[mrbiggs]

This is more of a question than a suggestion, but is it possible to fence outside of college? If I was to go to a school without a fencing program, but in a city with quality fencing, such as Boston or New York, then would fencing at a club be practical?

[bmcfencer]

Depends on the school, doesn't it? I can't fence outside of school going to Bryn Mawr, but Bryn Mawr is crazy and I don't have time for anything. And it depends on other factors, like how much you care about grades, and whether you have transportation, and how often you are going out to fence. I suspect you can make it work if you want to.

[gatorjosh]

Come down to to Florida!