Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Gav · 07-23-2002, 08:44 AM

*Yawn* Really small words would be fine - whatever makes it easier for yourself.

ps I like crayon - pretty colours.

And hey, while we're about lets start burbling in baby speak, after all it doesn't matter how we speak. right?

coochycoo.

[ 07-23-2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Gav ]

Pa55w0rd · 07-23-2002, 08:47 AM

LOL

thats harsh

(i like pretty colours too)

D'Artagnan1673 · 07-23-2002, 09:18 AM

Ooh, look at the pretty flames!!!! All shades of colour.

Let's face it, Gav, you make one insulting remark so it puts people on the defensive and now we've got a full blown flame war on our hands because the offended party is asserting his right to flame right back.

three_hundred_fifty_five · 07-23-2002, 10:02 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
Many sabre fencings have chimed in that I have mispelt sabre on my club's website (I've been spelling it saber)

Anyway, I just typed sabre as everyone swears its spelt, and I am getting a spelling error on Word!!! Are you all sure it isn't saber?<hr /></blockquote>You can spell it either way and it is correct.

damianip · 07-23-2002, 10:16 AM

You know what really bothers me?

When people spell épée without the accents...

Wait a minute! Is it "épée" or is it "èpèe"?

Is the Americanized version of "épée" "epee"?

Maybe we should spell it "aypay"!

How about we just assign numbers to each of the weapons like golf clubs? Then we could argue over which weapon gets the number "1".

Paolo

[ 07-23-2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: damianip ]

veeco · 07-23-2002, 10:19 AM

In France, we have what's called the Academie Francaise. They are responsible for monitoring the language, and say how words should be spelt (spelled??).

Sounds like my English speaking friends need something of that sort :-).

D'Artagnan1673 · 07-23-2002, 10:35 AM

How do you put those accent marks like that on a keyboard?

I quit trying those marks because this was the best I could do

e`pe`e

Please help!!!

damianip · 07-23-2002, 10:56 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
How do you put those accent marks like that on a keyboard?

I quit trying those marks because this was the best I could do

e`pe`e

Please help!!!<hr /></blockquote>D'Art,

If you're using an MS OS just use the character map application to cut and paste 'em into your text.

You can also use the ALT+0233 keystroke to get an "é" (that's the alt key and then 2 3 3 on the number pad). Any keystroke can be found out using charmap.

Other OSes? I don't know.

Paolo

veeco · 07-23-2002, 11:17 AM

Another way of getting this is to install the Microsft Global IME (IME stands for Input Method Editor). This allows you to switch between different keyboard layouts and languages.

With it I can type Japanese:

さまり

Chinese:

下聂

Korean:

모ㅜ초ㅐㅑㄴ

And of course, English.

As well as French:

épée

Or German, etc...

See:

<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/recommended/ime/default.asp" target="_blank">http://www.microsoft. com/windows/ie/downloads/recommended/ime/default.asp</a> for the info on the IME.

And <a href="http://crl.nmsu.edu/~mleisher/keyboards/" target="_blank">http://crl.nmsu.edu/~mleisher/keyboards/</a> for information on the different keyboard layouts.

The Latin ones are pretty easy to learn. You just have to know where a few keys are, the rest are pretty much like the English one.

Note that I don't speak neither Japanese nor Chinese, nor Korean, so whatever I have written is not meant to mean anything. If it does it's pure coincidence. If it sounds offensive to you, I did not mean to be...

[ 07-23-2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: veeco ]

shyHeidi · 07-23-2002, 12:12 PM

Yeah, on a PC do it like Paolo said, if you have a mac, hold alt (er, I mean, "option"

) and push the "e" key, then let go of option and push the "e" again.
épée, or if you hold down alt and push the ~ key, then let go and push "e", you get the backwards ones. èpèe

Inquartata · 07-23-2002, 08:02 PM

Nah, English ( note that we still call it that, formally, not 'American' ) is still a freeform, fluid, changeable language. No Academies for the Ossification of English, please. The French obsession with 'correctness' of speech is a bit too much like being marched in lockstep to look at a sunset for my tastes...

Perhaps the saber/sabre is a Germanic/Romantic thing. In English the word ends in -er ( British English has absorbed too many French flavorings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ), just as the German "sabel" ends in -el. Meanwhile in French it ends in -re, just as in Spanish, another Romance language, "sabla" ends in -la---terminal consonants in germanic words, terminal vowels in Romance tongues.

It's a crackbrain theory, but lighthearted at least...

fred · 07-23-2002, 09:28 PM

"If it's not Scottish, it's CRAP!!!"
(sorry, couldn't resist :-)

saber - 1680, from Fr. sabre "heavy, curved sword," alteration of sable, from Ger. Sabel, from a Slavic source (cf. Rus. sablya, Polish szabla "sword, saber")

So the UK usage is from the French, which would give it priority, so to speak :-)

Now on to "meter" vs. "metre". Discuss.

sabreur · 07-24-2002, 12:56 AM

Just to quibble, in German it is säbel--which would be saebel if you can't do the Umlaut.

MR

Catlady · 07-24-2002, 10:12 PM

From what I understand saber/sabre is an American v. British thing. We supposedly speak the same language, but don't. Other examples, the placement of punctuation marks in quotes, the English still use shall, Americans rarely do, and as someone mentioned meter/metre and many more that I am unaware of, or can't remember. Usually when referring to a sword in general, I write saber, but referring to the sport fencing weapon I write sabre. Saber would probably be considered more correct than sabre--though from what I understand both are technically correct--if you are in the US. However, fencing is more European influenced--the freaking FIE site is in French only after all and I think we're used to seeing sabre, so we tend to see the other spelling as incorrect.
So to sum up, it's your choice. To some extent it depends on what image you want. I tend to get in trouble for it, but despite being American I often follow British convention just because I like them better.

Catlady · 07-24-2002, 11:03 PM

Okay, I've got to open my mouth again so to speak in support of D'art. I don't want to get into the whole American love it or leave it thing yet again--although it's interesting to me that often the same people who complain about Utahns having a love it or leave it attitude--which BTW I don't support, we've all got to attempt to accommodate each other in this world as much as we can--don't see the parallel between that attitude and their attitude about America. That said, I love America, it's the greatest nation on earth, however it could be even greater and that's what I support, the practice of striving to become better.

American Culture invented Jazz, the Beat Movement, Rock n' Roll,to name a few significant concepts. It produced Ezra Pound, William Carlos Williams, Gwendolyn Brooks, Ernest Hemingway (although he was an ex-pat.)Eudora Welty, Willa Cather Maya Angelou, and so many others. However, it's seems like we've slowed down as of late. We've become either too comfortable, or too disillusioned. In many cases, I'd vote for the latter, and we've forgotten that things change and ultimately we can change things, but that we have to try. That goes for what Mergs and Sabreur advocate, that we don't appreciate our freedom enough--I agree we don't--and causes that "bleeding-heart-liberal-Commie-Pinko-20-something-know-nothings" like me support. If I didn't believe in and support this country I wouldn't have bothered to vote--albeit I doubt I voted for the people that those who would label me unpatriotic would have liked me to (yes, I voted for Nader and thus everything is my fault. I know, I know). As someone once said (Churchill?), Democracy may not be perfect, but it's the best alternative.

That said, there are certain things I envy about Europe and the UK. The history for one, old around this country is about 200 or so years, compared to the age of so much in the world, that's an eye blink. Then consider I'm from the West so, except for what was left by the original occupants (before the Europeans), things here are even younger. What's really terrible, as an aside, is that we, in this area, are even further behind others in the nation in not appreciating what we have in natural beauty. The reason why so many people from the Eastern US are environmentalists is, contrary to what often seems popular belief, is that they've already seen what happens when unabashed growth is your primary concern. Yes, I know people need to live and if we're too caught up in preserving nature the human race may not survive to be able to appreciate it, but the result may be the same even if we preserve nothing--as a matter of fact it will, sooner or later you're going to kill something that will impact the human race enough to endanger our survival. I also envy Europe for what they've realize about where imperialism and meddling too much in outside affairs will ultimately get you. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be willing or able to learn from the mistakes of others. From what I know of history, the US seems to be getting itself in the position Britain was in at the end of the last century. I am the first person to wholeheartedly assert that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men (and women) to do nothing, but there's a certain amount of arrogance involved when we try to step into situations that have been critical for longer than our nation has even existed and think we can offer an easy solution and fix it just like that. For the record, I'm not referring to the Bin Laden thing. We have now been forced to take the action we are, and may God bless the men and woman who are placing their lives on the line for us--though if you'd asked me what we could have done to prevent it, or ask me how we can keep a similar situation from developing, I'm quite willing to comment, (aren't I always?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> The truth is, great country though this is, we have made some mistakes, everyone has. To not admit that is as ignorant as it is to maintain that we've never done anything right. Surprisingly, I think PC has gotten out of hand. Woman or Womyn, the difference is in the attitude not the spelling, unfortunately we've perfected placing band aides on paper cuts, while ignoring the chest wound in that particular situation--what I mean is we've tinkered with the language, but left many of the attitudes untouched. This view of course makes me unpopular with much of the liberal crowd, and my other views put me on the outs with the Conservatives, so boo hoo, no one likes me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I guess that's why I call myself unindoctrinated--not independent, since that holds a specific affiliation apparently.

On the oppressed peoples front I'm really out of luck. I'm German--a great deal of which is Prussian, and if you're familiar with Germany and German history you realize this is pretty bad. Just as a hint the Prussians invented the goose step. For the most of the rest I'm English--some of which is actually Norman, so that makes me descended from the oppressors of the oppressors. The rest is pretty much Danish (yeah, Vikings, and then the Normans started out as Vikings too). It doesn't get any more white bread than that.

Finally on a lighter note, I worked in the hotel/travel business for a while and yes, Sabre is a booking program, as are Impact and Fidelio, to name a few and here is your useless info for the day.

As elegance, to some extent that's why I sound more formal and have been told not to. I maintain it is possible to be both elegant and functional both in fencing,though I'm decidedly unclassical, and in writing--where I'm heaven only knows what. Still, it is a living langauge, when it stops changing and mutating, which it does wonderfully at times, it's dead and I love language of all kinds too much to want that to happen.

For the record, yes, the writer does have a pretty good reach.(check out the pen is mightier than the sword quote if you don't get it).

Rant off

Dalton · 07-24-2002, 11:29 PM

Aye, that's a long one...

Anyway, I just discussed this subject with a friend who studies french at the university. She has done some research on the subject and told me that "sabreur" originally meant a "crude, brutal soldier". Furthermore, a "coup du sabre" meant rape of a woman.

Just a little bit of fencing trivia.

lochinvar · 07-25-2002, 06:23 AM

England and the United States... two nations divided by a common language...

fred · 07-25-2002, 07:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dalton:
Aye, that's a long one...

Anyway, I just discussed this subject with a friend who studies french at the university. She has done some research on the subject and told me that "sabreur" originally meant a "crude, brutal soldier". Furthermore, a "coup du sabre" meant rape of a woman.

Just a little bit of fencing trivia.<hr /></blockquote>That is actually quite interesting. And in English "sabreur" retains the very same connotation in fencing!

fred · 07-25-2002, 08:07 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sabreur:
Just to quibble, in German it is säbel--which would be saebel if you can't do the Umlaut.

MR<hr /></blockquote>Ganz richtig. I was afflicted with laziness since what used to produce an umlaut under Mac OS X now results in å. So I can write ångstrom correctly, but not Sabel. Also, most English speakers will pronounce the word correctly written without an umlaut. Unlike, say, "München". Say, I just figured it out.

Hit Option-u and then the appropriate vowel. Ausgezeichnet. Works with this diacritic, too, è, option-`, and the ever popular é, Option-e. And ñ, Option-n. I'm on fire!

Inquartata · 07-25-2002, 09:30 PM

Bah, you are BOTH um-louts...