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Pa55w0rd · 07-23-2002, 04:37 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gav:
Better food for starters. (no pun intended)<hr /></blockquote>bloody celts... ;-D

damianip · 07-23-2002, 05:09 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gav:
Oh guys...

<snip!>

I also noted that UK and England seem to be interchangeable. Wrong. Spell sabre how you like but you show a marked lack of world knowledge if you think this is true. The UK comprises England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the crown protectorates and colonies. England is merely 1 part of that. It's irritating for people who live in the UK to be lumped as English when we're not.<hr /></blockquote>I didn't use them interchangeably. Having worked for a British company for almost 17 years, I'm well aware of the "components" of the U.K. However, one gets the feeling that it's still the English who get to run everything.

It's the English who are really French (Norman). The Scots just wanted to be friends with the French in order to get the English out (amazing how history can be so easily condensed, huh?)

I think the whole situation was best summed up in Trainspotting.

To quote Renton:

"Some people hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to get colonized by."

Paolo

schlager7 · 07-23-2002, 05:36 AM

shyHeidi wrote:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />... "sabreur" looks so funny typed out though. I mean, if you were just an average non-fencing person and stumbled onto that word in a book, how would you end up pronouncing it? It looks weird.
<hr /></blockquote>Notto goback tothe dance/ballet thread fromearlier,but the general name for a male dancer in aballet is danseur.

Gav · 07-23-2002, 06:29 AM

Oh Dear DamianIP. The renton rant is partially correct. However the truth is that the high level politicians tend to be Scottish. Therefore we are colonised by wankers, but run their country for them.

D'Artagnan1673 · 07-23-2002, 06:37 AM

Now I'm not trying to butter up to the Europeans on this board, but I like to incorporate little tidbits of European culture in my daily life.

I find that mainstream American culture is tasteless and stupid. Europe has been civilized to some extent for much longer than we have been a nation. It is only natural then that they will be more refined and cultural.

sabreur · 07-23-2002, 06:57 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
Now I'm not trying to butter up to the Europeans on this board, but I like to incorporate little tidbits of European culture in my daily life.

I find that mainstream American culture is tasteless and stupid. Europe has been civilized to some extent for much longer than we have been a nation. It is only natural then that they will be more refined and cultural.<hr /></blockquote>Dude,

Go back in your box. Or expand your head. Or your definition of mainstream American culture. Or come over here and live a while and learn something before you spout....

I don't want to get Mr. Flamethrower out <img src="http://www.plaudersmilies.de/rough/flamethrower.gif" alt=" - " /> but does the expression "20-something know-nothing wannabe" ring a bell? Read Eudora Welty. Go swim in the Mississippi. Hope Mergs doesn't come after you to give you a lesson about what it really means to be an American and the number of people who sacrifice a great deal (their lives sometimes) to give you the privilege to whine about things you don't understand.

Christ.

MR

[ 07-23-2002, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: sabreur ]

D'Artagnan1673 · 07-23-2002, 07:03 AM

Geeze..... I came THIS close to going into a big, long explanation about how I DO APPRECIATE those things but was just too lazy to do it.

I also came THIS close to saying that my preference is for the romantic, Dumas style of Europe. I was thinking more or less of my Utopian idea of what Europe should be. Refined, elegant men and women sitting around and drinking sherry, (lets not add in the oppressed populace into our image though.) I've seen what much of modern Europe looks like and its pretty stupid.

..... and I thought we had a lot of Goths here.

sabreur · 07-23-2002, 07:05 AM

[ 07-23-2002, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: sabreur ]

D'Artagnan1673 · 07-23-2002, 07:06 AM

..... and I'm still too lazy, or maybe because I'm tired, to write my thoughts on the founding of this country.

D'Artagnan1673 · 07-23-2002, 07:07 AM

go on...... say what you think.

damianip · 07-23-2002, 07:21 AM

Couple of things:

One, are those from the British Isles officially European? Most of my British colleagues seem to distinguish themselves from the Continent.

Two, I love Europe but I will always make the US my home. There are many great things about Europe, and Italy in particular, but America is not the great cultural wasteland that D'Art suggested.

D'Art, there are many cultural treasures in the US, just open up your eyes as Mark suggested. When family members visit the US from Italy, it refreshes my view of just how grand it is here. It's all a matter of what you are used to. For example, they (the relatives) become numb to great Renaissance art and Roman ruins. We take the sweeping grandeur of this country for granted.

I love the US and, despite its drawbacks, it is for me, still the best place in the world to live. Not necessarily for any sense of cultural superiority but for the incredible cross section of cultures found here, the liberty and opportunity we enjoy.

Paolo

D'Artagnan1673 · 07-23-2002, 07:31 AM

Okay, Let me clarify myself.

I think much of our land is stupid and tastelss because as a mainstream, we have sooooo gotten away from the principals and ideals in which our country was built upon.

Look at the absolute pollution and trash in which we are spoon fed on the television. Sure, TV has its proper place, but much of our land totally abuses it. I know that as fencers, much of what I am saying does not apply because we are a cut above the rest in intellect and taste etc..

Our country was founded upon Christian and moral principals and ideals. What would our founding fathers say about our country today? Actually, they wouldn't be terribly suprised; but still saddened. I may be wrong, but I believe that Thomas Jefferson said something to the extent that within 200 years, our system of government should be just as corrupt as any others (or something like that , you get the gist)

Now I said that we were founded upon ideals, I didn't say that we were an ideal country even from the start. We allowed slavery for nearly a century and we killed off the native Indian tribes through deceit (at least that is what it looks like) Its hard to believe many things because we live in a time of revisionist history.

When our first president was inugurated into office, what did they do? They prayed!! Now we are so affraid of offending people that we want to take prayer completely out of any institution in our country. How can we run a government without the wisdom and guidance of God? To my knowledge, this country was first colonized by Christian men and women who wanted to have the freedom to worship Christianity as they pleased!

D'Artagnan1673 · 07-23-2002, 07:32 AM

Damianip,

I'd still rather live in this country than any other, I just think that we are selling ourselves short to what we could be.

Ben[PrFC] · 07-23-2002, 07:43 AM

Well now that it seems I don't need to defend the cultural merrits of my country, I can deal with the "saberist" vs "sabreur" issue again.
Specifically directed at Gav. First off how would you define "americanized"? Something being changed from its original form to reflect our culture?
Well, if that is true, and since the nature of the american culture is that it is so varied and multifaceted, I would like to formally americanize "sabreur" into "saberist", and even "sabrist" just to please everyone. Being myself a small facet of the american culture, by definition, I have the power to do so.
Next, it seems you're a bit off as far as the pronunciation of saberist goes.
"Saab-Wrist"? Nono. "Say-ber-ist" Ya know, like "sabre" only with an I-S-T on the end. And who are you to say what sounds stupid and what doesn't? It could be my opinion that sabreur sounds stupid. Im not going to suggest that you not use it, or even go so far as to tell you that you should not use it because it is not proper and makes you sound dumb.
Think what you want, I'll think what I want, and I'll thank you very kindly not to piss in my reality.

Gav · 07-23-2002, 07:47 AM

Damianip. Yes those from the British Isles are 'Europeans'. No matter how much they might think otherwise. A Tory government signed them up to the treaty of Maastricht which effectively makes them officially Europeans whether they like it or not. For some reason the English (or at least the Tabloid image of the English) seem to cling to past glories. Therefore, "We fought off Hitler", "We fought off Napolean", "We fought off the Spanish" etc etc attitude remains. In other words they don't consider themselves Europeans even though they are.

Sanky · 07-23-2002, 07:53 AM

Why not cling onto past glories. Not likely to have any more glories in our countries future history.

sabreur · 07-23-2002, 08:01 AM

Gav · 07-23-2002, 08:02 AM

Ben[PrFC]: re Saab-Wrist. That was in reference to sabrist which as it lacks the 'e' (Y'know like Sabre not Sabr) would theoretically be pronounced Saab-Wrist - if such a word existed.

Americanized means exactly that. Subsumed by american language - colloqualised if you will. It's a but like Scottish-English. There's a lot of Scottish English words (note I do not refer to Scots which is different) which have their own meanings in Scotland.

Is your psyche really so fragile that I can piss in it, with 1 post, from a couple of thousand miles away? Get grip, boy.

Pa55w0rd · 07-23-2002, 08:06 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gav:
Ben[PrFC]: re Saab-Wrist. That was in reference to sabrist which as it lacks the 'e' (Y'know like Sabre not Sabr) would theoretically be pronounced Saab-Wrist - if such a word existed.

Agreed but i like Sayb-wrist

Americanized means exactly that. Subsumed by american language - colloqualised if you will. It's a but like Scottish-English. There's a lot of Scottish English words (note I do not refer to Scots which is different) which have their own meanings in Scotland.

I see you Jimmy !!!

Is your psyche really so fragile that I can piss in it, with 1 post, from a couple of thousand miles away? Get grip, boy.

hmmm im trying to imagine the PSI in your schlong...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

<hr /></blockquote>

Ben[PrFC] · 07-23-2002, 08:36 AM

Now we've degenerated into insults while simultaneously avoiding more than half the points made in my post.
I will reiterate. Saberist may sounds stupid to you, or even make the person who uses it sounds stupid, but the same could be true of sabreur,depending on your perspective.
And I wasn't aware that we were debating the pronunciation of words that only exist in theory.
Saberist is a word, it's widely used. It's a matter of preference, not of absolute right and wrong. Your railing against it however mildly or intensely smacks of elitism.
As does your attempting to dismiss me by labeling me "boy", which is funny first because you don't know how old I am, second because even if you are older than me - the fact that you were born earlier(congrats on that accomplishment) doesn't mean automatically that you posess more knowledge than I do on a particular subject, and thirdly because you sound so stupid saying it.
As far as pissing in my reality, perhaps I should dumb it down a bit for you so to say "You stay on your side of the fence, I'll stay on mine."
Even further down, would mean you can pronounce it however you want, and I will pronounce it how I want, and neither of us will try to thrust our OPINION on the other.
If you need further explanation, I'd be happy to write it in crayon for you, on a napkin, and use really small words.