Pentathletes

[Sciurus-Rex]

A logical tangent to the thread's original intent: Perhaps it's time for fencing to push for a larger value in the overall pentathalon scoring system? Otherwise, if it's nearly worthless there's no good reason to keep it in place, historical value or not.

[Purple Roo]

As an ex-pentathlete I'd like to address a couple of earlier posts. First, thank you to Mr Epee who pointed out Johnny, Rob's and Laurie's successes as fencers.

I'm intrigued by the comment that pentathletes are impatient fencers. My experience is that most pentathletes are extremely patient fencers, and rarely get flustered with either 14-14 scores or with very few seconds left in a bout because those are the situations their training focuses on. The significant problem with many pentathletes is that they get very, very good at one or two moves but not the whole spectrum of fencing.

The run is not 1,500 meters but instead 3,000 meters. On the point about whether or not you can train a non-swimmer to swim: its true that to train a 20 year old to swim at the level necessary to be a good pentathlete is virtually impossible but the running is just as significant. To get 1,000 points (which is well below the minimum necessary to be competitive) you have to run 10:00. That's not fast for a real runner but its basically two 5:20 miles which, if you're not in good to great shape, is very difficult. In my experience, the men pentathletes I knew were able to run under 4:15 for an open mile which is damn good. Also, to be competitive in the swim you need to go 2:10, not 3:00.

Basically an American who's reached the world class level in modern pentathlete is one of the top 50 runners and 200 meter swimmers in every state in the country but FL, CA, NY and TX. They're also an A fencer (and probably top 3 in every state) and a top 10 shooter at air pistol. The sport that suffers is riding. Most pentathletes wouldn't even be allowed to enter formal riding competitions; they're just not good enough riders.

Most pentathletes train about 1 hour a day running, 2 hours a day swimming, 1 hour shooting (4x per week), 2-3 hours fencing (5x per week) and 3 hours riding (2x per week). Throw in a couple of 1 hour weight room sessions per week and you've just occupied about between 30-35 hours a week of actual training. Not too shabby and certainly a large reason why most pentathletes frequently show up to fencing competitions rather tired and probably not as good as they could be.

[misha]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Laurie Shong, Rob Stull and John Moreau were all Pentathletes, and some of the best fencers in North America over the past twenty years...

These guys were all excellent fencers.

Why are you using the past tense?

Laurie Shong is still competing in some events (Vancouver WC)
Last year he fought Kolobkov to the last touch (14-15)
This year he was 3rd
I doubt that anybody on this board has anything to show against him...
(ok... I have a suspicion that one person might,
but he is maintaining his anonymity so well )

John Moreau is still making US Div 1 national points...
and do not forget that he is 2003 US Div 1 National Champion!

Another US pentathlete, who fences well lately is Niul Manske:
top 8 in 2004 US Div 1 National Championship,
made points in Div 1 NACs 3 times out of 4 this year


.

[Fencergrl]

I don't know about the rest, but Laurie has been retired over the last year. He fenced the World Cup in Vancouver as it was in his hometown and he was one of the organizers for the event.

I fence at his club sometimes, I seldom see him fence just mainly coach. Knowing this, and watching him take 3rd place in the WC was quite amazing. He's a very impressive athlete.

Based on this, I think Mr. Epee was perhaps indicating these fencers are not actively competing as much as they used to.

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by Purple Roo

Most pentathletes wouldn't even be allowed to enter formal riding competitions; they're just not good enough riders.

You guys don't train for hours and hours with the same horse. If an equestrian's horse was injured or sick they wouldn't compete. You get to ride a horse that's picked for you, right?

[equine]

Don't run your abilities down Roo. I have watched a couple Pentathletes ride and they aren't that bad. With better training they might be good. To ride is fairly easy, to ride well is takes hours "on the fork". To ride a horse which you got on for the first time 15 minutes ago takes a talented (and brave) seat. I always thought it took at least 5 rides for me to get comfortable on a horse and I was just trying to gallop them around the racetrack, much less jump a stadium course. Regardless of their abilities in each of the disciplines the Pentathlete is an incredible athlete for their dedication and training. I hope the sport will be able to remain an Olympic event.