ACL Tear

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Kalivor..

the original poster thought that the meniscal tear would keep him out longer than the ACL tear...which isnt necessarily true.

Yes my research began with meniscal tears but frankly theres so much interrelated reading and questions that I have asked over the years. This isnt my first martial sport. I've seen a few acls go in my life. Caused a great deal of them. God bless hockey and karate.

Fencing is different:

Front knee: This is the knee that absorbs the impact of the lunge. While it's true that with proper form, this motion shouldn't acutally cause any strain to the ACL, who's form is perfect, particularly after a 5+ month layoff? Plus, if your knee ISN'T 100%, it should be pretty clear that doing a real-speed lunge is out of the question.

Back knee: The motion of the back knee in fencing is one that puts particular strain on the ACL. I know of more than one dedicated fencer (as in "still involved in the sport despite this") retire from competitive fencing because of the strain that it puts on their surgically repaired back knee.

If you think 5months is innaccurate then I'd say one wasnt aggressive enough with treatment options. I think 10 months is a sign that people took their recovery very easy and under the care of a regular physician with no sports medicine background. Was that always the case? Probably not. But usually. I think.

I don't know about everybody I know who has had the injury, but the couple of people that I know well were under the care of a sports medicine specialist and their surgeon, as well as undergoing regular physiotherapy. My girlfriend certainly did everything all those people asked her to do, and more.

Incidentally I do know someone who used a brace to help him fence after ACl surgery in 6.5 months and I know him enough to know he didnt do any alternative modalities. But he had really strong legs and drank alot of beer. Is that alternative? Drinking beer? Hmm...only if it works I think.

As I said, returning to practice earlier is a possibility, but all-out competitive fencing? Not realistic over a 5-month timespan.

LEt me see. WHat use have you been on this thread? At least I did some research on the subject... talked to doctors, researched the web. What did you do on this thread? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Other than sharing info about your gal pal...nothing.

Yep, I did absolutely no research when it happened. Never talked to doctors, or other fencers with the same injury. Didn't do any research on the web or in medical journals.

It's very interesting that you assume I know nothing about the topic. I didn't do any of my research particularly for this thread ... but then again, neither did you. Unless there has been a major breakthrough in ACL repair and rehab over the past couple of years, though, I think my old research is still probably sufficient for me to be as knowledgable about you on this subject.

Is a faster return possible? Yup. That 10-12 months can be beat, with good doctors, hard work and some luck. Halving it? I'd suggest anybody coming back to fencing in half the time is putting their newly-repaired knee at risk.

Best of luck to you... but Im glad I dont live in Canada. Bad beer, bad weather and Bryan Adams have dealt you a bad blow.

The weather ... is unfortunately true.
Bryan Adams is a blight upon the Earth that we are very, very sorry for.

But the beer? This is coming from an American (I'm guessing)?

Oh, and finally:

the original poster thought that the meniscal tear would keep him out longer than the ACL tear...which isnt necessarily true.

Very right you are.

I figured we should agree on something

[R. Exnicios]

Not to stir the pot any more but I only blew out one knee; the left one (my rear leg).

There are also several other things to consider when you talk about recovery time.

How old you are. What condition you are in. How good your form was prior to the knee injury. How much damage there is. How much time you can devote to the rehab. How the surgury is done. And most important. What level of abiluty do you want to return to.


For example. Everyone knows how to jump but most people do not know how to land. The idea is to limit the impact on the knees. Jump from a standing position onto a 24 inch platform or table. If you land correctly there will be no sound or shaking of the platform. The same for jumping down. NO IMPACT. There were dozens of exericises like this to reteach the muscles how to perform better.

Good luck withthe surgury. Ask if yu can get an "Iceman" it makes icing the knee so much easier.

Cheers

R

[Craig]

Originally Posted by cameroncrazy323

3-4 weeks ago I tore my ACL and meniscus while cross training. I've been doing pt and will have surgery at Christmas because I go to college soon. My doctor tells me that I will be able to do activities up until my surgery but in moderation. Ive heard estimates from my doctor and one of my fencing coaches that I wont be able to fence competitively from 10 months to a year following surgery. I was wondering if anyone else has done this and what they went through with the time before surgery, with surgery, and with rehab (especially how long it took you to get back to 100%). Right now im trying to get to where I can take lessons and possibly a bout or two (not sure about that though).

The sports med facilities at Duke and UNC are top notch. Listen to what Alex or Ron say and go with that as they both have dealt with fencers with ACL tears and trained them back to being competitive.

Both schools also have good PT (Physical Therapy) resources - make sure to use them and your legs / joints could end up stronger than before the tear.

Craig

[cameroncrazy323]

Originally Posted by Craig

The sports med facilities at Duke and UNC are top notch. Listen to what Alex or Ron say and go with that as they both have dealt with fencers with ACL tears and trained them back to being competitive.

Both schools also have good PT (Physical Therapy) resources - make sure to use them and your legs / joints could end up stronger than before the tear.

Craig

Craig,

I ended up going to VT. I already found the physcial therapist and orthopedist for the football and basketball teams and I am going to them. I actually injured my knee at Ron's camp and he has been giving me advice. He is incredibly nice and a great coach. In fact he is the one who told me 10 months until full fencing. Right now I'm getting a brace made so I can do activities up until surgery. They are not worried about my acl because its more or less just dangeling in my knee, but they are, however, worried that I will do something to further to tear the meniscus, making it impossible to repair.

[FencerMom]

My daughter had an ACL complete tear and meniscal tear as well. I am a physician, and researched it fully. She saw a sports medicine doctor, and had surgery by the surgeon for our NBA team.

The earliest you can come back competatively is 6 months. My daughter did all that the physical therapist asked of her. She still took lessions, sitting for 2 months, standing for 1 month, then gradual increases to do full footwork. She was able to compete almost 6 months to the day. She has done well since, and is doing well competatively. It really helped her bladework.

There is contraversy as to when the atheletes can come back to competition. Her surgeon felt comfortable with 6 months, given how she did with phyiscal therapy, and how she checked out at each visit. Other experts feel that is too soon, and puts you at risk for rerupture of the ACL. Many feel that you should wait 1 year. The literature is mixed.

There is also differences of opinion whether to use cadaver tendons, or your own. In our area, most feel using your own is better. The doctor who specializes in complicated knee surgery has seen too many cadaveric tendon ruptures, more than those who had their own tendon used.

ACL tears are more frequent in girls, especially in soccer and basketball. In fencing the reason for the tear is imbalance of muscles and improper footwork. Keep that front foot straight! Keep the hamstrings strong.
for those who have girls in sports, there is a great site for conditioning to prevent ACL tears. It is highly thought of. Here is the web site:
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/k.../aa022202a.htm

[cameroncrazy323]

I didn't even do it fencing. I was cross training for fencing and cut real quick on this fake grass stuff. My foot went out from under me while the rest of my leg was turning and my knee twisted. It made the most unbeleavable pop...I thought I was gonna puke.

[fatfencer]

FencerMom]My daughter had an ACL complete tear and meniscal tear as well. I am a physician, and researched it fully. She saw a sports medicine doctor, and had surgery by the surgeon for our NBA team.

The earliest you can come back competatively is 6 months. My daughter did all that the physical therapist asked of her. She still took lessions, sitting for 2 months, standing for 1 month, then gradual increases to do full footwork. She was able to compete almost 6 months to the day. She has done well since, and is doing well competatively. It really helped her bladework

.

Nyahhhhhhh at Kalivor and Mr Epee. I told you it could be done. Just have to be aaggressive and have good sports specific doctors. I wonder if it would have been better if acupuncture and herbs were involved. Who knows. Still remarkable recovery and Im glad for Fencermom and, by extension... FencerKid?

Fencer Mom, M.D. If you could please emailme some details about the doctor you used. Specifically what coverage did you have and how much were your out of pocket expenses? Oh, and who is he?

Im worried that I cant afford my own meniscal repair surgery. Also, some of the doctors I spoke to dont have as much of a sports reputation as I'd like. Certainly not the same rep as an NBA doctor.

Please use the email addy available thru this forum. Click on 'Fatfencer'

Thanks so much for your input.

Fatfencer

PS: Is there a brace you recommend based on your experiences?

[R. Exnicios]

Originally Posted by cameroncrazy323

I didn't even do it fencing. I was cross training for fencing and cut real quick on this fake grass stuff. My foot went out from under me while the rest of my leg was turning and my knee twisted. It made the most unbeleavable pop...I thought I was gonna puke.

The pop!

I have heard that Pop many times. Omly once was it mine.

Mine was at a large tournament when I was doing a very fast retreat and did a stop lunge. "POP!" The lower leg stopped but the part above did not. I dislocated my knee cap in the process. I was laying on the strip with my lower leg at an un-natural angle and my knee cap on the side of my knee. The pain was unbeleivable!

People said they heard it all the way across the building.

It took several months for me to stop waking up with a jolt from reliving it in my dreams!

The loadest I heard was from a local Saber fencer D.D. (not the swordmistriss) I did not see the action but we heard what sounded like a bat hitting a ball for a homerun. I remember every head in the gym turned to see him rolling on the ground.

As an aside I was told by several people in PT that it is the worst pain they have ever felt (sorry ladies, including child birth - their words, not mine)

Good luck with the knee

R