US warns Americans from traveling anywhere and doing anything.

[esskreemr]

Because of the events in Iraq, the US State Department is warning Americans against traveling anywhere or doing anything. Lovely. Thanks for the freedom. When do we get our's back?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/1...7,00050001.htm
The warning issued on Tuesday did not list countries but cited "current information" as indicating that Al-Qaeda and affiliated terrorist groups are planning attacks against US interests in "multiple regions, including Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East."

"US citizens are strongly encouraged to maintain a high level of vigilance, be aware of local events, and take the appropriate steps to bolster their personal security," the statement said.
...
The targets, the Department said, could include places where Americans met or visited, such as residential areas, hotels and restaurants, as well as places of worship, schools, clubs, business offices and public areas.

I wonder if I could pass as a Canadian... Pass me some of that poutine, eh?

[Beeblebrox]

Because of the events in Iraq, the US State Department is warning Americans against traveling anywhere or doing anything. Lovely. Thanks for the freedom. When do we get our's back?

You still have your freedom ... the State Dept. is just being nice notifying the uninformed that there are muslim extremist terrorist out there that want to nothing more than to kill you. Of course, this is nothing new, we have been living with these travel warnings and threats of violence for 25 years. The only way to be able to travel anywhere safely would be to kill all of the current and future terrorist before they can do the same to us (not really possible). Or, we just try to ignore them and hope they will leave us alone (as they did on 9/11). So, you can blame the democrats for taking no action against terrorism, republicans for too much action, or face the reality that it doesn't matter what the government does, muslim extremist want you dead!

I wonder if I could pass as a Canadian... Pass me some of that poutine, eh?

Your only safe bet would be to pass as Al-Qaeda

[Larrison]

You still have your freedom ... the State Dept. is just being nice notifying the uninformed that there are muslim extremist terrorist out there that want to nothing more than to kill you. Of course, this is nothing new, we have been living with these travel warnings and threats of violence for 25 years. The only way to be able to travel anywhere safely would be to kill all of the current and future terrorist before they can do the same to us (not really possible). [...]

*tongue firmly in cheek* Well the obvious response should be for the US government to provide appropriate arms and training for all US citizens leaving the country. Caliber and number of armaments dependent upon the current assessed risk of the countries being traveled too. Not accepting appropriate weaponry and/or training may be subject a citizen to additional taxes (for the cost of defending citizens who will not contribute to their own defense when notified).

Range of Armament may include:
- Water pistol and beer can opener (UK, Australia and Canada
- Shotgun and 00 buckshot (Mexico)
- 30-06 hunting rifle and no limits permit (France)
- AR-15 and 300 rounds NATO standard (Brazil)
- M1A1 with HEAT and Sabot (Iraq)

Resupply and medical insurance are the responsibility of the individual. Travel Agents will now double as DI's and weapons instructors, such as "Pleasant Getaways Travel Agency, Shooting Range, and Gun Shop"

Cruise Liners travelling to foreign ports will be required to provide aircover for tourists coming ashore, after appropriate shore bombardment (tends to drive off the souviener vendors as well).

(and yes, this was intended to be sarcastic and humorous.....)

[scrapinpeg]

meh, you've gotta take ess's ravings with a dose of levity. the poor soul gets so worked up about nothing, so routinely, i'd hate to see how ess reacts to an actual crisis.

[Sword Mistress]

whether informed or not, the world "out there" especially in the middle east and countries with high levels of anti-American cultures have always held hatred for America and what we stand for.

i remember when i visted Israel a couple of years back, there were still suicide bombings, and plenty of anti-American (aside from their hostility towards their own people as well) activity going on. the Media makes it sound like these levels are aggravated and i agree in certain areas they have become more prevalent, but any hatred towards americans that exists in other countries has for the most part always been there and probably will remain for quite a long time.

the problem is, Americans and American culture in general has had this idea that we are the golden child of the world. that no one should dislike us because we stand for everything good and right. and now that that ideal has been in a sense shot down by other countries more publicly in the past couple of years, it's become this hype of "Oh, well we shouldn't go anywhere outside the US anymore, because they all hate us."

They've always hated us. They always will. and that's something you need to be aware of yes, but it's also something that is not new, that has existed for quite some time now.

[reposte]

i remember when i visted Israel a couple of years back, there were still suicide bombings, and plenty of anti-American (aside from their hostility towards their own people as well) activity going on

What exactly are you talking about?

[esskreemr]

meh, you've gotta take ess's ravings with a dose of levity. the poor soul gets so worked up about nothing, so routinely, i'd hate to see how ess reacts to an actual crisis.

I don't get worked up over your posts, those routinely amount to nothing...

[scrapinpeg]

Ouch, zing!

[Fencergrl]

First off, I think what the terrorists are doing is wrong.

I am curious however, if their actions have caused any of you (Americans) to examine or reconsider the how & why your country is disliked by others.

As a country, is there talk of change? Or have you fighting might with might and just suppressing this anger.

How do you feel about it? I’m not talking specifically about acts of extremism, it’s pretty obvious very few people in the world support that. I’m more interested if you are concerned about the more subtle dislike towards Americans. Do you understand it? Do you think you generally approve or disapprove of how your government acts towards others?

[Sword Mistress]

What exactly are you talking about?

well, other than the fact that while we were there (around 1996, almost 10 years ago) there were at least 3 bombings involving anti american motives, as well as 2 threats while we were at the airport...

i also had a friend that lived in Israel for the majority of her life, and had siblings born and raised there. They were Americans and had to live every day of their lives in discrimination. they didn't think too much about it. it was the way life was, but i remember in college when she told me of all the things that used to happen while they lived over there (for the better part of 15+ years), i was absolutely amazed at the level of security that we Americans live with and don't even realize we have. they went to school every morning wondering if they were going to come back home alive. would their bus be bombed? would someone come and shoot up the school kids? what if they were at their favorite pizza place and it was bombed as well? (which actually happened)

i loved Israel, it was an awesome trip and i really would like to go back sometime. all i was trying to point out is that the hostility that is so widely propogated by the American Media these days has really always been there. it's no different than 10 years ago.

[reposte]

they went to school every morning wondering if they were going to come back home alive. would their bus be bombed? would someone come and shoot up the school kids? what if they were at their favorite pizza place and it was bombed as well? (which actually happened)

Yes, there are times that things are quite like that actually, as overstated as it may sound to outsiders, this is actually the way things are at points were the security situation deteriorates. But I don't want to hijack the thread.

[gojujay]

I am curious however, if their actions have caused any of you (Americans) to examine or reconsider the how & why your country is disliked by others.

As a country, is there talk of change? Or have you fighting might with might and just suppressing this anger.

How do you feel about it? I’m not talking specifically about acts of extremism, it’s pretty obvious very few people in the world support that. I’m more interested if you are concerned about the more subtle dislike towards Americans. Do you understand it? Do you think you generally approve or disapprove of how your government acts towards others?

It seems to me, in my totally biased opinion, that groups that "hate" or dislike Americans in general have a victim mentality in common. America has not done "enough" for their country/ethnic minority/race. Why do people think that America as a country owes them anything? I hear about reparations for past misdeeds as a justification for disliking America or it's current political leadership, but no country/group/race comes to the table with clean hands.

As to our government, with whom I frequently disagree, how do they act differently than any other government? In general, they put U.S. interests first and they work to gain advantageous situations for U.S. business interests. Those interests may change dependent on who occupies the big chair, but the occupant of that chair does as he/she sees as best for U.S. interests. I'm not sure if this answers your questions. If not I'm sure you'll let me know

[Fencergrl]

You did answer my question. I expected an answer similar to yours, so that answers the question "Is there talk of change?"

Thank-you.

[Epee_Pox]

First off, I think what the terrorists are doing is wrong.

I am curious however, if their actions have caused any of you (Americans) to examine or reconsider the how & why your country is disliked by others.

As a country, is there talk of change? Or have you fighting might with might and just suppressing this anger.

How do you feel about it? I’m not talking specifically about acts of extremism, it’s pretty obvious very few people in the world support that. I’m more interested if you are concerned about the more subtle dislike towards Americans. Do you understand it? Do you think you generally approve or disapprove of how your government acts towards others?

There is a presumption in your question, that the US has done something to deserve this hatred.

I disagree with that presumption. I believe that the hatred of terrorists and the like against the US is undeserved, and that it is not OUR fault they feel that way. I'm not saying they don't have reasons, I'm just saying their reasons are not a reaction to things the US does.

They hate us because of what we ARE -- a freedom loving, powerful, wealthy, influential country committed to the spread of freedom -- not because of what we DO. And I would not change what we are for the world.

(What we do is occasionally embarrassing -- but we are our own best policeman with a population primed to catch out improper acts and hold the gov't accountable for them and make sure it doesn't happen again.)

[Fencergrl]

There is a presumption in your question, that the US has done something to deserve this hatred.

I disagree with that presumption. I believe that the hatred of terrorists and the like against the US is undeserved, and that it is not OUR fault they feel that way. I'm not saying they don't have reasons, I'm just saying their reasons are not a reaction to things the US does.

They hate us because of what we ARE -- a freedom loving, powerful, wealthy, influential country committed to the spread of freedom -- not because of what we DO. And I would not change what we are for the world.

(What we do is occasionally embarrassing -- but we are our own best policeman with a population primed to catch out improper acts and hold the gov't accountable for them and make sure it doesn't happen again.)

LOL... I'm sorry to laugh at your outrage Epee pox, but it is amusing to me, that you are defining to someone FROM another country WHY someone from another country dislikes/hates you. I'm not saying that your perception of my presumption is right or wrong... just amusing....

[Epee_Pox]

Outrage?

And I'm not talking about why YOU may dislike the USA. I'm talking about why the terrorists and others who hate us tend to. You think they have other reasons, why don't you say what they are?

I think what I said is an accurate description of a flaw in the premise underlying your original question. If you disagree, and wish to support the premise, please do!

[esskreemr]

There is a presumption in your question, that the US has done something to deserve this hatred.

Deserving or not is obviously a relative statement. For the record, I think that the targeting of any civilians is a reprehensible act and there is no action that could merit this cowardly and abominable practice.

I disagree with that presumption. I believe that the hatred of terrorists and the like against the US is undeserved, and that it is not OUR fault they feel that way. I'm not saying they don't have reasons, I'm just saying their reasons are not a reaction to things the US does.

That is YOUR perspective. As SG has mentioned, it is most likely NOT shared by somewhere upwards of 4 billion other inhabitants of this planet.

The U.S. is extremely aggressive in "protecting" its interests overseas. Can you not concieve that we have possibly stepped on more than a few toes in the performance of this goal? There are some (possibly many) that equate launching a 10 million dollar missile at a sovereign nation and destroying a neighborhood that may or may not house military equipment with terrorism.

They hate us because of what we ARE -- a freedom loving, powerful, wealthy, influential country committed to the spread of freedom -- not because of what we DO. And I would not change what we are for the world.

No doubt there is a certain amount of envy and nationalism involved. It is a fact that the U.S. could conceivably placate the entire Middle East within a few months in a war (occupation of said region excluded). There is most likely a sentiment of jealous frustration because most Muslim nations are bit players in the global scene. Take away their oil, and they sink to a level of insignificance that must drive them into a state of fury.

(What we do is occasionally embarrassing -- but we are our own best policeman with a population primed to catch out improper acts and hold the gov't accountable for them and make sure it doesn't happen again.)

But it does happen, again and again. We pride ourselves (we being a collective) on our gunboat diplomacy. Why are you so surprised that there is quite a bit of hostility and resentment towards our actions. The American press doesn't report on everything that happens overseas. Real or not, there are quite a few people who hold a grudge towards us and are willing to blacken our eye at any cost.

That's why I would LOVE to see us move away from an oil economy. Let's see what excuse they have for the wholesale butchering of innocents all in the guise of a jihad. You think they are pissed now, wait until the money dries up and the civilized world turns a blind eye to their region and it's petty tribal wars. You can't fly a plane into a building if you can't afford to even buy the plane ticket...

[Fencergrl]

And I'm not talking about why YOU may dislike the USA. I'm talking about why the terrorists and others who hate us tend to. You think they have other reasons, why don't you say what they are?

For the record, I don't dislike/hate Americans. I disagree with a lot of policies of your government, but that's about it. I work closely with them, and have many friends and relatives who are American. As for the terrorists... I cannot begin to understand someone who would go to such extremes.

I think what I said is an accurate description of a flaw in the premise underlying your original question. If you disagree, and wish to support the premise, please do!

Of course you think your description is accurate, you created it. My original premise is based on earlier comments made in the thread. Others mentioned that Americans are disliked in other countries (my own country included at times).

Since dislike for Americans (or Iraqis, or whoever…) usually arise out of a particular event or decision made (at least it does in my country). I just wondered if there were Americans on F-Net that were able to provide with a snapshot of how the average American feels about this.

As stated before, Americans have been hated in different countries for different reason for many years. Up until 9/11 any attacks on Americans happened off American soil. For most part Americans just accepted this situation and pretended to be Canadians when you traveled.

9/11 was the first attack on Americans on American soil. This seemed significant to me. I'm not saying Americans are to blame, or that they deserved it. I was curious if it made you wonder why other countries react in some negative fashion.

It wasn’t meant to criticize or blame, it was simply a question asked from a Canadian’s perspective. I was just looking for insight, not fault.

[jeff]

It is a funny thing though. While the US undoubtably has its share of arrogant behavior throwing its weight around - not surprising for the #1 military and economic power, it just doesn't seem that other nations who have done, or are doing worse, get even a fraction of the abuse we get.

Let's think of a few cases, with both domestic and cross-border evil: the Arab states are almost all dictatorships, many of them forbid the practice of any but Islam, many sponsor terrorism, and most of them essentially enslave all women. How about the ongoing genocide in Sudan? North Korea is a brutally repressive dictatorship where millions are starved, and is threatening its nuclear capability. China continues to occupy Tibet, and is making threats towards Taiwan. Japan is increasingly reviving its fascist past, refusing to acknowledge the genocide they commited during WW II. If we want to rake up the past a little more, then we should mention the imperialism of the European countries that defined the Middle East and Africa as they are now: France, Great Britain, Germany, Belgium, Italy, not to mention the Soviet enslavement of Eastern Europe.

Where's the outrage? Where are the marchers in the street demanding they change or acknowledge their past crimes? Well, to heck with that - let's go complain about the US again.

Changing gears to what the jihadists think: it's been said by numerous analysts that they hate us because we in the West are so rich and successful. We are the decadent unbelievers, but somehow our culture is rich, dynamic, creates art and technology, while theirs is impovershed (whereever there is no oil) and stagnant. This is a humiliation to them, and the only way they can think to avenge it is to destroy innocent lives. It's worth reminding people that 9/11 preceded the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, not the other way around.

[reposte]

it just doesn't seem that other nations who have done, or are doing worse, get even a fraction of the abuse we get

That is inaccurate.
The Soviet Union is getting more abuse for it's geopolitical conflicts, and with the exception of 11/9, it has suffered attacks which are more frequent and more fierce.

To address briefly one point: Don't do the mistake of contrite introspection after being the victim of a terrorist attack.
The human profile of Al Quaida is not a disenfranchised muslim from a third world country.
These are people from the upper middle classes, Saudis and Egiptians, educated, which are fundemental Islamists and who attack the U.S for one reason and one reason alone: It is vulnerable.
Many people fear terrorists, they should get it into their minds that terrorists are the most cowrdly peolpe one can find waging an armed conflict. They are not even guerilla, which use humbugg tactics to attack military targets.
The target selection of these cowerds is determined by their vulnerability.
An attack from AQ has yet to occure in Israel, for example, probably because of the extreme security measures which are an inherent part of the Israeli everyday life - which brings this round to the original topic.
Do not go walking about in fear of these low lifes.
Unfortunatly, a large stock of the Judeo/Christian western cultural point of view is wracked with monotheistic primordial fears, and the modern left wing philosophys turn people to what many who deal with psychological trauma call victim shock.