Large non-NAC tournaments

[sabreman]

Also should credit the C rated male sabre fencers that received As by making the top 8.

[tkrivosh]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Question about that... the three Japanese fencers were all listed as A05. I remember reading that international/foreign fencers could, for seeding purposes, be temporarily assigned an equivalent classification, although I could not locate that statement in the Ops Manual when I just checked it. The question is whether or not such non-earned seeding devices could towards the totals required towards tournament classification. Without those three A05's, which I strongly doubt the fencers in question have earned in the US (not that they aren't likely capable of earning, all three are in the FIE top 100 in WS), the tournament would have been (I believe) an A3.

Doesn't change the strength of the competition, and if it's held again next year I hope to get down to it. Or to any others that look likely to get near A4 status. Problem will be finding cheap flights (NACs both offer national points and I can cover costs through reffing... local opens, even good ones, are more expensive).

-B

That is what the USFA officials told me to do: look up their FIE ranking and assign them with the classification of the comparable american fencers. Since all three of them are very high on the FIE list, in fact much higher than some of the american fencers with an A ranking in the tournament,
that is what was done for this event. By the way, one of them was injured so she did not participate (neither did her ranking).

As to the female top finishers, Emily Jacobson is an Olympian and a World champion, so is it so surprizing that she beat quite a lot of males on her way to the top?


Tatiana
Nellya Fencers

[DHCJr]

In the Operation Manual under Section 5: Awarding classifications. Part 1.d (page 42) by attaining distinction in international competition which in the judgment of the Board of Directors is equivalent to that involved in the preceding clauses of this paragraph and the awarding of the classification may be retroactive.

[tkrivosh]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

In the Operation Manual under Section 5: Awarding classifications. Part 1.d (page 42) by attaining distinction in international competition which in the judgment of the Board of Directors is equivalent to that involved in the preceding clauses of this paragraph and the awarding of the classification may be retroactive.

Which is a fancy way to state the method we were using for the Nellya's Open. Thank you for clarifying.
Tatiana
Nellya Fencers

[rcmatthews]

I dont really think it surprising at all that a female olympian beat a lot of male fencers to win.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by rcmatthews

I dont really think it surprising at all that a female olympian beat a lot of male fencers to win.

Actually, the female olympian got second, which is somewhat more interesting.

[Goofy]

The recent Nellya tournament was an incredibly strong event, and (as has been previously posted) hopefully it will become an annual tournament.

The top 16, from askFRED:

1 Ward, Becca OFA
2 Jacobson, Emily NF-GA
3 Efstathiou, Evangelos
3 Newkirk, Wesley UNC-UA
5 Ziechmann, Bobby KOS
6 douville, david NF-GA
7 Ziechmann, Kevin KOS
8 Cheney, Bryan ABF
9 Jacobson, Sada NF-GA
10 Douville, Robert NF-GA
11 Levitt, Teddy UNAT
11 Nakayama, Seira UNAT
13 Jellison, Eva PDF
14 Wieronski, Ania LFA
15 Kaneko, Sakura UNAT
16 Roukas, Sam FC C2005

[rcmatthews]

Indeed, I was incorrect. Perhaps more surprising still is that the number one in the world did not win.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by rcmatthews

Indeed, I was incorrect. Perhaps more surprising still is that the number one in the world did not win.

Any given Sunday ya know? The bar in women's saber continues to rise. The younger sabrists are giving the older girls a run for their money.

The reason I was giving DFP a hard time because in a recent thread he said,
"If the girls want to fence with the boys, let them. I dont think anyone will object. However, I remember some female fencer beating a rather tough male fencer at a large local tournament, so females wont always lose. I think however, that if you let the girls fence the guys at the national tournaments, they'll get it out of their system fast (except for the few oddballs that like being at a disadvantage). I'm not being sexist with the disadvantage thing, seriously, with equal tactics and technique, a stronger and faster fencer will take the win, and guys have that advantage.__________________
I found it worth mentioning that he was sooo wrong. Tactics, brains, hard work and loving the sport produce winners.
Guys don't always have the advantage and neither do Olympians.

[R. Exnicios]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

The Longhorn and the Pouj are both excellent, and will be A4s in Epee if history is any guide at all. Sabre is consistantly B2, but the Rose in the only A sabre tournament in the region I know of, because they imported a fencer to make it

The longhorn, Pouj & the Rose are indeeed excellent events but I
Just wanted to point out that the 2005 CCO Mixed Saber event was an A2 (in fact al three weapons were A2)

2004 CCO Foil: A2, Epee A2, Saber B2

2006 CCO March 4 & 5

Cheers

R

[rcmatthews]

The bout between Sada and a gentleman named Westley Newkirk was really quite entertaining to watch. Mr. Newkirk managed to earn his A that day, and a well deserved A it was.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

In the Operation Manual under Section 5: Awarding classifications. Part 1.d (page 42) by attaining distinction in international competition which in the judgment of the Board of Directors is equivalent to that involved in the preceding clauses of this paragraph and the awarding of the classification may be retroactive.

Does this imply that only the BOD can assign the ratings, or only that it must "sign off" on the competitions in which the fencer to be rated has fenced?

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Mo

I found it worth mentioning that he was sooo wrong. Tactics, brains, hard work and loving the sport produce winners.
Guys don't always have the advantage and neither do Olympians.

I think you're being a little hasty there. There were 3 of the top 5 women in the country (top 20 in the world) and only 4 male A's (highest one #20 in the country). Only one male A was knocked off by a female. The tournament also ended up awarding 3 new A's (all to men)--seems a little high, especially with 2 jumping up from a C.

While it's great to show that women can be successful in highly competitive mixed tournament, it was not women and men who were competing on the same level (highly successful international women vs. decently successful national men).

I'm not going to go as far as to say you're wrong, but given the complete circumstances, I also don't think it proves you're right.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Only one male A was knocked off by a female. The tournament also ended up awarding 3 new A's (all to men)--seems a little high, especially with 2 jumping up from a C.

Looking at the list, it was every bit as strong an event as the ones which award epee A's - remember how difficult it is to earn a sabre A.

[fencergal33]

I guess those who are skeptical about the difficulty of the tournament weren't there. In my opinion, it was by far the toughest tournament I've ever been to, and I did moderately well for my ability and still finished somewhere in the 40's. There were several upsets that day, including the one between Wesley Newkirk and Sada Jacobson. However, it was a clean win, and amazing fencing to watch.

New ratings are earned in almost every large tournament. If no one ever earned new ratings, what would be the incentive to come to high level tournaments, as opposed to local crappy ones?

One of those guys that jumped from C to A was one of my teammates, and I know one of the others pretty well. These people fenced very hard for those ratings, and really and truly earned them that day. They beat people that were seeded higher than them in most cases, and managed to outfence their opponents.

I'm not really sure why a lot of people feel the need to criticize such a great tournament. If you don't agree with the ratings or placings, try to run an A4 yourself.

[Peach]

Here's the North American list of annual events mentioned in this thread so far, plus some other annual ones I know of (I didn't include the Nellya Event because it isn't yet clearly an annual--correct me if I'm wrong).

Amazon epee (women's epee)
Big Apple Open
Canadian Selection Circuits
Charm City
Cherry Blossom Open
Crescent City Open
Duel in the Desert
Liberty Cup tournaments (sabre)
London Heroes
Long Beach Invitational
Longhorn
Mr. Ma Cup
Nick Toth Invitational
Phoenix Cup
Pomme de Terre
Pouj
Remenyik
Rose Condon
Temple Open (collegiate fencers)
The Big One (collegiate fencers)
Tournoi Baton Rouge
Veterans Challenge (veteran fencers)
Virginia Hangover Open
Virginia Kickoff Open

Any comments? Events to add? Rankings?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by tkrivosh

Which is a fancy way to state the method we were using for the Nellya's Open. Thank you for clarifying.

Well, no, actually it isn't. I don't remember the BoD being asked to give equivalent classifications for ANY fencers from ANY country in the past 3 seasons. What it says is that the USFA reserves the right to award fencers classifications of A or B to fencers for international (non-USFA) results.

Originally Posted by tkrivosh

That is what the USFA officials told me to do: look up their FIE ranking and assign them with the classification of the comparable american fencers.

My question is whether the proper implementation of this is to assign them the classification for seeding puposes only or to assign them the classification for additionally determining the strength of the competition. Or, for that matter, completely assigning them the classifications (which it appears cannot be done below the BoD level).

Again, I'm fairly certain I've seen this covered somewhere in addition to DHC's citation (which I had found in my original searches and disregarded as non-applicable, given that the BoD did NOT assign any classifications to these fencers).

-B :)

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Peach

Any comments? Events to add? Rankings?

Should include the Penn State Open under collegiate individual events.

-B :)

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

My question is whether the proper implementation of this is to assign them the classification for seeding puposes only or to assign them the classification for additionally determining the strength of the competition. Or, for that matter, completely assigning them the classifications (which it appears cannot be done below the BoD level).

-B

Well, what DHC posted said it could be retroactive, so perhaps BoD will be petitioned by Nellya in the near future so as to make good on the new classifications they promised.

[Goofy]

Originally Posted by Peach

Here's the North American list of annual events mentioned in this thread so far, plus some other annual ones I know of (I didn't include the Nellya Event because it isn't yet clearly an annual--correct me if I'm wrong).

I've tried to add locations to Peach's list.

Amazon epee (women's epee), Washington, DC
Big Apple Open, New York, NY
Canadian Selection Circuits, (multi)
Charm City, Baltimore, MD
Cherry Blossom Open, University of Maryland, College Park, MD
Crescent City Open, New Orleans, LA
Duel in the Desert, Las Vegas, NV
Liberty Cup tournaments (sabre), New York, NY
London Heroes, London, Ontario, Canada
Long Beach Invitational, Long Beach, CA
Longhorn, Austin, TX
Mr. Ma Cup, Cherry Hill, NJ
Nick Toth Invitational, Colorado Springs, CO
Phoenix Cup, Mesa, AZ
Pomme de Terre, Brandeis University, Waltham, MA
Pouj, San Marcos, TX
Remenyik, Northwestern University, Evanston, IL
Rose Condon, Bossier City, LA
Temple Open (any collegiate fencers), Temple University, Philadelphia, PA
The Big One (New England collegiate fencers), Smith College, Northampton, MA
Tournoi Baton Rouge, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA
Veterans Challenge (veteran fencers), Boston, MA
Virginia Hangover Open, The Plains, VA
Virginia Kickoff Open, Richmond, VA