08-02-2005, 08:31 PM
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#21 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ??FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,291
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Originally Posted by downunder Roch has done more for this sport than any of you put together. Its so easy to jump on the "i hate rene" bandwagon, but by keeping fencing in the Olympic games for at least 2 more he has done more than any of you ever will, and should be respected as such. | You're such a tool.
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|  | | And now for this message... |
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08-02-2005, 09:31 PM
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#22 | | Member
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: OH
Posts: 54
| Transparent masks &problems related to vision.
Quote:
van Dugteren noted there may be some additional problems related to vision (internal light
reflection, lens action, risk of condensation).
| Call me crazy, but those exact things happen to anyone who fences with glasses on-and there is loss of peripheral vision.
Last edited by voi3ad; 08-02-2005 at 09:33 PM.
Reason: Bad tag
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08-02-2005, 10:02 PM
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#23 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,099
| It would seem like a good reason not to fence with glasses on. | |
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08-02-2005, 10:38 PM
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#24 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: MA
Posts: 7,467
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Originally Posted by downunder Roch has done more for this sport than any of you put together. Its so easy to jump on the "i hate rene" bandwagon, but by keeping fencing in the Olympic games for at least 2 more he has done more than any of you ever will, and should be respected as such. | I agree, but we have to question his knowledge if he keeps trying to do things that will ruin foil. Making the arms and mask target, no off target, all these ideas are creative, but many don't seem to be very well thought-out. His ideas for epee and sabre run along the same lines.
I don't understand his comments here because first, FIE masks are more expensive from what I can find. Secondly, I'd imagine that French grips wouldn't necessarily make for softer thrusts, especially in epee. Thirdly, I find it hard to beleive that anyone who knows anything about modern fencing would try to get rid of pistol grips, and I highly doubt that Roch could ever take such an action, seeing as that the vast majority of point weapon fencers use them. | |
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08-02-2005, 11:09 PM
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#25 | | Din Älskling
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somewhere inside your head. Or am I?
Posts: 4,196
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by downunder Roch has done more for this sport than any of you put together. Its so easy to jump on the "i hate rene" bandwagon, but by keeping fencing in the Olympic games for at least 2 more he has done more than any of you ever will, and should be respected as such. | I question this assertion. The only people that I have heard say that fencing is in jeopardy of losing its Olympic spot are either Roche or people quoting Roche. I have yet to see an Olympic officer mention that fencing was on the chopping block. NEVER!!! This is not to say we should rest on our laurels, but I think Roche has done the classic technique of creating a drastic situation and then using it to push through changes by circumventing the normal channels all in the name of "saving" fencing from its imminent Olympic demise.
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"Since when does being a patriot in America mean shutting your mouth?"
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08-02-2005, 11:38 PM
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#26 | | Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 51
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Originally Posted by Alan transparent masks cost less than other FIE masks | This is just plain wrong; even if they did actually cost less, I would still have to buy a new mask in order to use one. Even if a new transparent mask cost $10 it would still be more expensive than using my current mask which costs nothing for me to use. | |
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08-02-2005, 11:40 PM
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#27 | | Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 51
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by downunder Roch has done more for this sport than any of you put together. Its so easy to jump on the "i hate rene" bandwagon, but by keeping fencing in the Olympic games for at least 2 more he has done more than any of you ever will, and should be respected as such. | It's easy to say that when you fence épée. | |
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08-02-2005, 11:48 PM
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#28 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Angel, London
Posts: 2,484
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Originally Posted by esskreemr I question this assertion. The only people that I have heard say that fencing is in jeopardy of losing its Olympic spot are either Roche or people quoting Roche. I have yet to see an Olympic officer mention that fencing was on the chopping block. NEVER!!! This is not to say we should rest on our laurels, but I think Roche has done the classic technique of creating a drastic situation and then using it to push through changes by circumventing the normal channels all in the name of "saving" fencing from its imminent Olympic demise. |
Its come from Rogge (IOC chairman). Rogge, who is an ex-fencer, has told Roch that to stay in the Olympics you need to get rid of the reels/spools, and get rid of the white light.
The reason why making the back arm and mask target, and the front arm partially target is to facilitate the removal of the off target light.
This has been told to me by a member of the FIE executive. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Kat It's easy to say that when you fence épée. | Thats true. But i referee foil at quite a high level (national finals etc, just waiting to turn 20 to get my international stuff...), and the new timings have made foil so much easier to referee. Quote: |
Originally Posted by OROD You're such a tool. | thats quite possibly true also, but i'm right. | |
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08-02-2005, 11:52 PM
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#29 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Angel, London
Posts: 2,484
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Originally Posted by D'Art and seems hell-bent on what he thinks tv wants, rather than actually asking tv what they want and working with the companies to find a happy medium where fencing would stillbe recognisable as fencing, but more TV-friendly |
Surely this is the role of the Promotion and Publicity commision?
(not meaning to criticise Carl Borack, he is very nice guy - i met him in London, but does that commission actually do anything?) | |
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08-03-2005, 12:26 AM
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#30 | | Din Älskling
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somewhere inside your head. Or am I?
Posts: 4,196
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by downunder Its come from Rogge (IOC chairman). Rogge, who is an ex-fencer, has told Roch that to stay in the Olympics you need to get rid of the reels/spools, and get rid of the white light. | So now we have a cabal of two. Is this conversation documented? Again, has the idea that fencing is on the chopping block (any more so than the other small sports) a matter of IOC record?
I hate to be obtuse about this, but Rogge is the current chairman of the IOC. He won't always be there. He won't be there when the next round comes up. Implementing extreme rule changes to appease him isn't the only way to "save" fencing. Should we completely change the weapons at the whim of one or two men? Rogge couldn't even get his pet projects, golf and rugby, into the Olympics. I don't see how courting him is going to save fencing. He's soooo concerned about fencing staying in the Olympics, we couldn't even get a couple of extra sets of medals to add females to the count.
If we're soo concerned about viewability, lets ask the people who know. What would make the sport more viewer friendly? Do we need to make the sport viewer friendly or would knowledgeable announcers fill the gap? Does anyone really care that much about a couple of wires? Quote: |
The reason why making the back arm and mask target, and the front arm partially target is to facilitate the removal of the off target light.
| A move that will make foil a bastard child of sabre and epee. This isn't saving foil or fencing. It's likely to move more people to fence epee. I'm sure Roch (an ex-epee fencer) won't lose sleep at night because of that. Quote: |
This has been told to me by a member of the FIE executive.
| Yes, and I've heard it multiple times on this forum. Still doesn't sit right with me.
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"Since when does being a patriot in America mean shutting your mouth?"
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zz,zz,zz,zz,zz,zz!
Last edited by esskreemr; 08-03-2005 at 12:33 AM.
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08-03-2005, 01:14 AM
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#31 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 193
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Originally Posted by downunder Thats true. But i referee foil at quite a high level (national finals etc, just waiting to turn 20 to get my international stuff...), and the new timings have made foil so much easier to referee. | Foil has always been easy to referee... and I would assume even easier for high level refs unlike me. | |
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08-03-2005, 04:43 AM
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#32 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
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Originally Posted by AntonioDelMonte ok i don't get it an Uhlmann FIE Foil/Epee Mask costs between $170-$225
and the Sabre Mask cast about $229 or more and yet the Lexan SAbre Mask cost about $459 and about $400 for the Foil/Epee Mask so is Roch use the new math when he says a transparent mask cost less than a regular mask
god i can't stand the friggin guy he is an idoit of the highest caliber |
In fact fir his majesty, it means Foilepee Mask !
__________________
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Just forget these broken foil test timings !
Use clear visor masks for fishing,
and video to film your mother-in-law.
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08-03-2005, 01:39 PM
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#33 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,534
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Originally Posted by OROD You're such a tool.
. | I prefer "enabler".  | |
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08-03-2005, 01:43 PM
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#34 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,534
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Originally Posted by downunder Its come from Rogge (IOC chairman). Rogge, who is an ex-fencer, has told Roch that to stay in the Olympics you need to get rid of the reels/spools, and get rid of the white light. | Have you a citation for this, or is it just second- or third-hand hearsay? Quote: |
This has been told to me by a member of the FIE executive.
| Who I'm sure insists on anonymity. Ah, those "unnamed sources".  Quote: |
the new timings have made foil so much easier to referee.
| That's great, I'm sure...but fencing is supposed to be about the fencers, not about making things easier for officials and nicer for spectators, isn't it?
This is one of my main problems with Roch: he has experienced clear goal displacement. He has mistaken the support systems of fencing for fencing itself...
Last edited by Inquartata; 08-03-2005 at 01:48 PM.
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08-03-2005, 01:46 PM
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#35 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Interesting advice on this seen on the French forum :
"En effet, les novices avec qui je discute qui s'interressent à l'escrime (et ça interresse beaucoup de monde autour de moi) n'aime pas le masque à visiére transparente, ils trouvent en général ça moche et en plus n'y voient aucun interêt!!!!!!!! "
In English
"In fact non fencers wich i know who are interested in fencing (and they are a lot around me) do not like clear visors mask, generally found them ugly
and do not see any interest in them."
I guess the pseudo-telegeny of clear visors masks is at best questionable. | |
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08-03-2005, 02:44 PM
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#36 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 204
| Did Roche not even read the med com report?
The issue is not whether new visor masks can be made safe, but that there isn’t currently a test which can determine the safety of old masks. An old brittle transparent mask is unsafe no matter what grip you opponent is using. | |
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08-03-2005, 02:57 PM
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#37 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,534
| To say nothing of the fact that he forced them first onto sabre, where there isn't exactly a big vogue for orthopedic grips... | |
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08-03-2005, 03:50 PM
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#38 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,934
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata Who I'm sure insists on anonymity. Ah, those "unnamed sources". :) | Easy guess is the Exec Committee member that's local to him:
SMITH Helen
President of the Oceanian Fencing Confederation
Mmmm, the FIE includes contact information for EC members...
ROCH (MH) Rene
President of the FIE
CABINET ROCH
101, bd Malesherbes
75008 PARIS
FRANCE
Phone : +33 1 40 76 05 04
Fax : +33 1 40 76 05 40
E-mail : fie.rr@wanadoo.fr
Actually they include contact information for all committee/group members.
-B :)
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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08-03-2005, 04:58 PM
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#39 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata To say nothing of the fact that he forced them first onto sabre, where there isn't exactly a big vogue for orthopedic grips... | If only he could stick to Sabre ...
__________________
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Just forget these broken foil test timings !
Use clear visor masks for fishing,
and video to film your mother-in-law.
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08-03-2005, 05:08 PM
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#40 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,534
| "If we don't hang together we shall all hang separately". | |
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