"only Rubes wear bandanas" and other myths

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Thank you for providing a solution to the Olympic medals controversy.

As if they'd listen to me.

[bmcfencer]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Hair nets.

Ever worn a hair net? Good golly, would that ever be snagged on my mask!

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by foildad

I have to disagree. To paraphrase DFP from another thread long ago: If they fence in clogs, they're a scrub.

dude, you've got a point, but thats different. A bandana wont make you fence worse, clogs will though.

[cornflower]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

What, you mean ones with the bill facing forward?

Seriously, how many people around here wear hats underneath their masks with the bill facing backwards? I once saw a chick do that.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by acaba

Please, get it right ! Purple. Really. Who would wear such an outrageous color?

*raises hand*

Been wearing purple socks for years (at least when I was competing regularly).

As for bandannas....anyone remember the "Chili My Soul" hip hop cap I used to wear....with a sweatband sewn inside?

By relatively bad fencing wasn't caused by my clothing...it was caused because I basically suck.

The idea that simply wearing a bandanna makes you a rube is ignorant at best, prejudicial at worst...

[telkanuru]

There are certain assumptions I make about fencers when it comes to appearance. Some signs I use to determine a low amount of skill is:

~Brand spankin' new FIE whites, plus new FIE mask and a pair of Adidas shoes without any wear marks
~Bandanna (hey, every guy (but not girl) I've fenced who wears them was kinda bad)
~How long it takes them to hook up to the strip
~They type of blade they use (the better people tend to have FIEs)
~type of grip (anything but a visconti or a thick french grip on an epee)
~unfamiliarity with the rules, procedures in a bout, etc.
~and, in general, their level of comfort with their setting.

That's about all I can think of now. No individual indicator is a garuntee, but if they add up, they tend to point in a direction.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by el chucko

When I fence, I wear a bandana that is folded up like a headband to absorb the sweat. The director of my club does, too. Over the years, many of our members have begun to do this as well.

About a year ago, a number of us went to a small tournament in Canada, and one of them asked us, "What do the colors mean?" It took us a while to realize that almost all of us were wearing bandanas, and hardly anyone else there was. They thought the colors had some sort of significance, like the uniforms on Star Trek or something. ("Red means I work in engineering, and probably will die in the landing party!")

Recently, a coach from another club told one of our young fencers that she shouldn't wear a bandana, because "good" fencers don't do that, and it makes her basically look like a Rube. Jeez, I just don't like sweat in my eyes. Does that make me a Rube or a poor fencer?

What other stereotypes/preconceptions/myths are out there about fencers' attire, appearance, etc.???

Just curious.

I feel some duty to chime in. It's not that ALL Banadana wearers at tournaments are bad fencers. Most are, but not all. (As are most dorky sock wearers.) Most bandana wearers being sucky fencers is largely due to the fact that they are either new to the sport or have somehow walked into the wrong place and should be down with thier D&D breatheren pretending to live in a different time period. That having been said, yes some Banadana wearers are good fencers but they still look like dorks. It's hard not to come off looking stupid with a rag on your head. As for sweat, well... I suppose a towel kept at the side of the strip maybe...

And please remember that finding a bandana wearer is only the begining of 'Bandana Dork Bingo'. You must then get Bingo. (For those not in the know do a search on Bandana Dork Bingo in these forums)

[Drifter]

I find it interesting that most of the people saying things like, "I wear a bandana and I don't understand why you're laughing" haven't pointed out what thier ratings are. If you're a good fencer that wears a bandana then the quickest way to end this thread is say something like, "um.. I'm an 'A' rated fencer and I wear a bandana at every tournament." Otherwise... Um... you might be the 'scrub' fencer that is being discussed...

On a side note. I think most of the 'conformity as a means of determining ability' line of thinking comes from the fact that as one goes to higher quality tournaments, the 'individualist' is yellow and red carded out of you. Let's not forget that at all world cup events this year it looks like they're going to require everyone to wear a clear mask. Dictating appearance seems to be an FIE past time. So it only stands to reason that the high quality fencers learned long ago that 'colored socks' or what have you only earn you a card and end up sitting at the side of the strip after you've changed into white socks. I am speaking in generalities of course but let's face it this entire thread is about generalities.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by Drifter

On a side note. I think most of the 'conformity as a means of determining ability' line of thinking comes from the fact that as one goes to higher quality tournaments, the 'individualist' is yellow and red carded out of you. Let's not forget that at all world cup events this year it looks like they're going to require everyone to wear a clear mask. Dictating appearance seems to be an FIE past time. So it only stands to reason that the high quality fencers learned long ago that 'colored socks' or what have you only earn you a card and end up sitting at the side of the strip after you've changed into white socks. I am speaking in generalities of course but let's face it this entire thread is about generalities.

I disagree. You're allowed to have colour on your uniform now -- sure, some of the older fencers earned their stripes in the days where you had to wear all-white, but you won't get carded for having coloured socks. Or pants. Or jacket. Or lame. Or mask.

On the other hand, it's easier and cheaper to buy white stuff -- that's the standard colour. And the *way* you fence provides far more individuality than a red lame and mask with green socks and "CLAUS" written across the back of the lame. When you're good, you don't need to look crazy to get people to watch your bouts anymore.

[Drifter]

Ok so I'm having trouble putting all my thought into just one post this morning.

A repost: (Originally posted in June)

In honor of those two Harvard Seniors who made up Tim Russert Bingo and played it with thier friends yesterday at Harvard Graduation, I've taken the time to make up Bandana Dork Bingo, feel free to play it at the next tournament.

1. Take the following 24 phrases and randomly place them on a 5 square by 5 square card (Remember the center square is a free space)

2. Strike up a conversation with an obviously out of place bandana wearing "fencer" at the next tournament. For every phrase he says or action you see him doing that is on your card, mark it off.

3. When you get five in a row either vertical, horizontal or diagonal, yell "Bingo!" Then hit the dork on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and in a stern and strong voice say, "No!"

Phrases for Bandana dork bingo:

"I've got to try switching to Northern Italian Style"

"These strips are way too long"

"Well, I'm 1 and 4 but I'd be doing much better if I hadn't sprained my foot three weeks ago at the Ren Fair"

Any incorrect use of fencing terms i.e. "He attacked in the Remise line and I stumbled during my pasant parry"

Discussing his ardent belief that the world cup rated referee that just adjudicated his 0-5 loss was clearly not capable of seeing his perfect form.

His equipment wouldn't pass even a divisional armorer check.

His mask has a removable bib.

When fencing, he stops after every one light action that goes against him to ask the referee why his superbly stylized parry was bad.

In conversation he quotes Alfred Hutton.

"I'm going outside for a smoke can you come find me when the next round starts?"

He's wearing black socks.

His bandana has the skull and cross bones on it.

He sticks his weapon through the D ring on his uniform when he's not fencing.

He brought his own harem of not very good looking fencer chicks that fence even worse than he does.

He gets carded for a brutal hit.

"Well Ya know I lost that DE because I felt sorry for my opponent, it's time he got his 'E'" (Bonus: Take ANY additional space if he says this after suffering a loss of greater than 8 points.)

"Once when I was fencing the master, Don Fuego..."

He begins quoting Princess Bride on strip.

He has named his swords and refers to them by such.

"The pistol grip should be made illegal! It's not fair to us 'True' fencers."

He wears a glove on his off hand. (Bonus: If it is black take an extra space)

He starts giving advice to the A rated fencer that beat him and everyone else in his pool 5-0

When leaving the tournament he gets into his beat up 1992 Chevy Cavilier. (Bonus: Take any additional space if the car has an SCA sticker on it)

In conversation you discover he owns a fencing book by Nick Evangelista.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by kalivor

I disagree. You're allowed to have colour on your uniform now -- sure, some of the older fencers earned their stripes in the days where you had to wear all-white, but you won't get carded for having coloured socks. Or pants. Or jacket. Or lame. Or mask.

On the other hand, it's easier and cheaper to buy white stuff -- that's the standard colour. And the *way* you fence provides far more individuality than a red lame and mask with green socks and "CLAUS" written across the back of the lame. When you're good, you don't need to look crazy to get people to watch your bouts anymore.

Red lame, green socks and Claus... That's funny. Really. Not being sarcasitc. Though again I think for the most part the highest caliber fencers just don't bother with the 'individualist' stuff because they know it may 'cause trouble for them down the road. For that matter is an FIE jacket, Lame or mask even available in colors other than standard white? I'm not sure but I think you'll find that answer is no.

[fencerchica]

On a related note, what exactly are the rules concerning uniform which doesn't actually break the rules, but which one's opponent might legitimately claim are an unfair distraction? I'm specifically curious about how Paolo Milanoli can possibly get away with that awesome killer clown mask he's famous for wearing. I love that mask, but I'd think that if a fencer had basically any design on his mask whatsoever, his opponents could claim it was a distraction and force him to swap it out for a plain one. Or are complaints like that never upheld?

[ThinkBackwards]

I know my sister swears by bandanas when she fences and she uses it just to keep her long hair and bangs out of her eyes. She may be fairley new to the fencing world but she still tends to beat the crud out of the people who criticize it. Even i notice that with her hair out of her face that she fences better. Should she shave her head or something? how else should she keep it out? those annoying little metal clips havent worked...

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Red lame, green socks and Claus... That's funny. Really. Not being sarcasitc. Though again I think for the most part the highest caliber fencers just don't bother with the 'individualist' stuff because they know it may 'cause trouble for them down the road. For that matter is an FIE jacket, Lame or mask even available in colors other than standard white? I'm not sure but I think you'll find that answer is no.

Here's a picture of Trillini fencing in a jacket with partially blue arms: http://www.fencing101.com/gallery/sh...hoto/104/cat/2

Uhlmann certainly offers their FIE masks in a variety of colours: http://www.uhlmann-fechtsport.de/inhalt_katalog_e.htm

Coloured lames are commonplace -- there's no "FIE" rating involved with it. I'm sure you've seen them -- the blue ones are particularly common.

I don't think that anybody actually has a coloured FIE jacket listed amongst what they sell -- I doubt that they're popular enough. You probably have to request it and pay extra ...

Edit: I'd like to add that everything I've mentioned in the "CLAUS" outfit -- other than the actual "CLAUS" name on the back, I've seen worn in competition. And yes, I have seen an FIE mask with red mesh.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by fencerchica

On a related note, what exactly are the rules concerning uniform which doesn't actually break the rules, but which one's opponent might legitimately claim are an unfair distraction? I'm specifically curious about how Paolo Milanoli can possibly get away with that awesome killer clown mask he's famous for wearing. I love that mask, but I'd think that if a fencer had basically any design on his mask whatsoever, his opponents could claim it was a distraction and force him to swap it out for a plain one. Or are complaints like that never upheld?

This hasn't made it into the USFA rules, but the FIE rules under publicity does outlaw design on masks except those that have been submitted to the FIE and approved. So far none have been approved.

QUOTE=drifter]Red lame, green socks and Claus... That's funny. Really. Not being sarcasitc. Though again I think for the most part the highest caliber fencers just don't bother with the 'individualist' stuff because they know it may 'cause trouble for them down the road. For that matter is an FIE jacket, Lame or mask even available in colors other than standard white? I'm not sure but I think you'll find that answer is no.[/quote]

I'm afraid the FIE at some competitions can get very lax. For example, when France Lame was still in business and they still are the 'Official' Sponsor of the FIE they made lame' with stripes on the back usually with the countries colors. Even now at some FIE competitions they have allowed designs on the lower back. There is no such thing as an FIE lame'. Besides the standard 'Black' for mask, there are a number of manufacturers that sell FIE masks in other single colors, like Red, Blue, Green, etc.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by kalivor

Here's a picture of Trillini fencing in a jacket with partially blue arms: http://www.fencing101.com/gallery/sh...hoto/104/cat/2

Uhlmann certainly offers their FIE masks in a variety of colours: http://www.uhlmann-fechtsport.de/inhalt_katalog_e.htm

Coloured lames are commonplace -- there's no "FIE" rating involved with it. I'm sure you've seen them -- the blue ones are particularly common.

I don't think that anybody actually has a coloured FIE jacket listed amongst what they sell -- I doubt that they're popular enough. You probably have to request it and pay extra ...

Edit: I'd like to add that everything I've mentioned in the "CLAUS" outfit -- other than the actual "CLAUS" name on the back, I've seen worn in competition. And yes, I have seen an FIE mask with red mesh.

I stand corrected.

These are however the exceptions wouldn't you agree? And as I mentioned before we are speaking in generalities here aren't we?

My appologies on the "FIE" Lame. I am well aware of the FIE rules and inadvertantly lumped mask jacket and lame together. So sorry.

[darius]

I find it interesting that most of the people saying things like, "I wear a bandana and I don't understand why you're laughing" haven't pointed out what thier ratings are. If you're a good fencer that wears a bandana then the quickest way to end this thread is say something like, "um.. I'm an 'A' rated fencer and I wear a bandana at every tournament."

This whole bandanna discussion is pretty entertaining; if you're wearing a bandanna, skull-and-crossbones socks, and look out of place with all the wires, chances are I'll be worrying about the next person.

That said, Adi Nott is ranked #7 on the Senior WF points list, and wears a bandanna, not only at every competition, but also at practice.

darius

[Goofy]

Originally Posted by fencerchica

.....his opponents could claim it was a distraction and force him to swap it out for a plain one. Or are complaints like that never upheld?

I do not believe there is any such thing as a complaint that color/design on clothing is a 'distraction', but (as DHCJr points out) it is instead a complaint that the color/design is not FIE-approved.

Check

http://www.britishfencing.com/30%20J...0book%20m..pdf

for the official English translation of the FIE clothing requirements.

For your specific question about a mask, Annexe A, Section 2 (Standards for the Manufacture of Fencing Masks), item 2.1.3, reads:

2.1.3. MASKS THAT ARE COLOURED OR DECORATED WITH DRAWINGS
Fencers may use masks in colour or decorated with drawings. However, and to avoid any negative effect on the image of fencing and of the FIE, these drawings and colours must be sent to the office of the FIE in Lausanne, for approval by the Executive Committee.

[foildad]

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