07-29-2005, 05:04 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,850
| 1964 Olympic Foils on Ebay
Are these for real, and if so, whose were they? 1964 Olympic Foils on Ebay
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07-29-2005, 05:06 PM
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#2 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,909
| Wow - they do look well used...
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07-29-2005, 05:09 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,850
| And have illegal handles...
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07-29-2005, 05:25 PM
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#4 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,909
| But were they illegal in '64?
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07-29-2005, 06:43 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athos FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,246
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt But were they illegal in '64? | Anyone know what kind of grips those are? They look like Spanish grips.
Also, what makes them illegal?
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07-29-2005, 06:59 PM
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#6 | | Din Älskling
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somewhere inside your head. Or am I?
Posts: 4,196
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by OROD Anyone know what kind of grips those are? They look like Spanish grips.
Also, what makes them illegal?
. | For some idiotic reason the FIE didn't want people to use well balanced pistol grips. I suspect it was because the French dominated FIE knew that if a pommel AND a pistol grip could be used at the same time, the French grip would cease to be used.
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07-29-2005, 07:10 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athos FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,246
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by esskreemr For some idiotic reason the FIE didn't want people to use well balanced pistol grips. I suspect it was because the French dominated FIE knew that if a pommel AND a pistol grip could be used at the same time, the French grip would cease to be used. | Oh, so it's the combination of pistol grip + pommel? That makes sense, cause I know Spanish grips are legal... and those look like a variant of the Spanish.
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07-29-2005, 07:58 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 203
| Hey those grips look cool
I was wondering if anyone had ever developed a grip with the control of a pistol and the balance of a French pommel. I suppose you could position your hand behind the crossbar and use it illegally. | |
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07-29-2005, 08:03 PM
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#9 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,909
| Hmm... I just read the description again and this jumped out at me: Quote: |
One has a slight bend in the foil blade but all are ready to use.
| (Emphasis mine)
I know nothing about being an armourer, but still... 
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07-29-2005, 08:34 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,755
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by OROD Oh, so it's the combination of pistol grip + pommel? That makes sense, cause I know Spanish grips are legal... and those look like a variant of the Spanish.
. | At the risk of getting into another grip legality argument with Barry Paul... 
Those are probably Spanish Offsets?? The reason they're illegal in the US is because you could shift the grip to the pommel and gain extra reach WITHOUT losing power or control because you could still get a finger around one of those protrusions...and the French pommel would provide a good grip.
Note that you can't make a grip illegal by name..you have to do so by it;s physical properties...this is why the Gardere is illegal in the US.
The grip regs are designed to make the playing field as level as possible with respect to the equipment used...it should come down to the skill of the fencer, NOT a huge advantage conferred primarily by the equipment. | |
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07-29-2005, 08:49 PM
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#11 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,884
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt Hmm... I just read the description again and this jumped out at me:
(Emphasis mine)
I know nothing about being an armourer, but still... | Well, as long as it is less than 1cm and located near the middle of the blade... | 
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07-29-2005, 09:02 PM
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#12 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,909
| Heh... I just meant that it made me a little concerned - well used blades, 40 years old, and they're "ready to use"... 
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07-29-2005, 09:10 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,755
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt Heh... I just meant that it made me a little concerned - well used blades, 40 years old, and they're "ready to use"... | Ready to break, too! | |
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07-30-2005, 02:30 AM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 127
| I vote for Dos Santos.
One could ask Ed Richards, I bet he could tell you which grip each of his team mates used in '64. | |
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07-30-2005, 02:54 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,755
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Originally Posted by Jvanhousen I vote for Dos Santos.
One could ask Ed Richards, I bet he could tell you which grip each of his team mates used in '64. | I forgot abolut that one...
Jeff...have you ever seen Ed's jacket from the 64 Games? He wore it to a Chaminade tourney once about 3 or 4 years ago (up in the cafeteria)...absolutely pristine black leather...I swear, not a friggin' mark on it! Olympic rings in blade thread on the back, his name in the label in side.
My GOD, it was a think of beauty! I saw fencers drooling over it all day...myself included! | |
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07-30-2005, 03:26 AM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mountain Home ID
Posts: 802
| One those the grips would different not be legal today. I ask Joe Brynes about them tomorrow since he was the US team armourer for the Toyko games, Now I have two foil used in the 84 Olympic given to my wife by the women Gold Medalist Luan from China.
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07-30-2005, 04:08 AM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 127
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Purple Fencer I forgot abolut that one...
Jeff...have you ever seen Ed's jacket from the 64 Games? He wore it to a Chaminade tourney once about 3 or 4 years ago (up in the cafeteria)...absolutely pristine black leather...I swear, not a friggin' mark on it! Olympic rings in blade thread on the back, his name in the label in side.
My GOD, it was a think of beauty! I saw fencers drooling over it all day...myself included! | Sam,
Yes I've seen those, (and his ring) George Nonamura and others have 'em too, they are pretty classy and go with Ed's cowboy boots too. But I'd rather have some of his sword cane collection, esp. the umbrella sword with a hidden sharp epee blade.
J. | |
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07-30-2005, 09:04 AM
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#18 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,587
| Note that the EBay posting claims they are foils from the estate of a '64 Olympian, but doesn't (assuming my brief skimming didn't miss it) claim that they are the foils USED in the '64 Olympics (or even used at any point by said Olympian, although that would be a reasonable assumption).
-B :)
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07-30-2005, 09:11 AM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Haydenville, MA
Posts: 1,558
| Why is it that I would never desire to own such a thing? I mean, items used in baseball games (bats/balls/gloves) are major hot items. If I had a bat used in the '64 World Series, I would treasure it. If I had a ball used in any MLB game, I would treasure it... but fencing memorabilia just doesn't appeal to me. | |
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07-30-2005, 11:15 AM
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#20 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,403
| Sam, if they had been the handle that is called Spanish Offset, they would be legal. It is somewhat similar to one called an American, which is a Belgium with the prongs cut off. A Spanish Offset does not use a French pommel.
As Jvanhousen stated they are a Dos Santos. The upside-down SST tail is the giveaway. If they are the original weapons, including the tips. They would need to be rewired, even if they still worked. The tips from '64 are no longer legal. I believe it was in '65 or '66 they made them illegal.
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