Press Releases from the FIE

[edew]

The FIE website has some new items (Nouveau! News!...) and it looks important in that it appears to discuss some new rules pertaining to foil (something about 10ms depression time, perhaps?).

My francais is about 23 years old and leaky badly on both port and starboard. Perhaps someone with better understanding of the "Langue" do a synopsis/translation of the releases.

I'm sure whatever is mentioned will not be implemented until next season.

[neevel]

My French ain't up to speed (execpt when I've just dropped 4 foil screws on the floor in a row and am in the "pardon my French mode" ), but I'm plugging it into the Systran website (www.systransoft.com) right now.

1. These are _proposals_, to be voted on at the next FIE Congress in Havana-- December of this year.

2. They're proposing reducing the double touch lockout time to 150 ms in Sabre, 250 ms in foil (i.e., if you hit your opponent, any hit they score on you will be blocked out by the maching if it arrives that much time later, regardless of whatever the ref might think has right-of-way). They will also modify refereeing conventions to give more precedence to stop hits in two-light actions. Further tests will be carried out at research centers in Moscow an Budapest.

COMMENTARY:
This essentially 'forces' a faster parsing of tempos for foil, and will favor stop hits into long, slow attacks or wind-ups for flicks. We've got an Eigertek machine at my club, and we've kept it set for the currently proposed 350 ms lockout time. It does have some effect, but not _that_ much-- you really can't 'time out' a flick hit with it. Now, the proposed time for foil is 100 ms shorter, so that may have a greater effect. The change in right-of-way conventions (presumably requiring the point to me more directly threating target section than current standards) will be more significant to this effect, in my opinion.

2. The foil tip debounce time (i.e., how long the foil point needs to be depressed for the machine to register a touch) will be incresed to 10 milliseconds. [note: the current minimum time is a range of 1-5 ms, with touches less than 1 ms being always rejected, touches greater than 5 ms being always registered]. As currently with sabre, the crossing over of the feet in an attack will be disallowed. Finally, extending the valid target to include the non-weapon arm will prevent covering valid target.

COMMENTARY: Eric Schlaepfer sent me firmware for the Eigertek that included the 10 ms debounce time. It does not make all that much difference. Only the most extreme, crack-the-whip-to-the-L1-vertebra flicks are rejected. You can still get a light on the more common top-of-the-shoulder flicks without much problem. As for extending the fleche-ban to foil, I really can't think of much to say right now (mind you, I just got back from a good Mexican place and have a couple of Margaritas fresh in me ). Frankly, I give the idea of making the back arm target as much a shot at reality as making the bib target had four years ago.

3. To aid the presentation and comprehension of bouts, the following six proposals are made:

The time limit for 5 touch bouts and for the rounds of team matches is shortened to 3 minutes.

[the auto tranlation becomes a bit garbled for the following section]If, during the prescribed time of the bout, no touch is scored for a period of one minute, the referee will halt the bout and mandate an additional minute. If, during that addtional minute neither fencer scores a touch, the bout will be ended and the leader declared the victor. If the score it tied at that point, the winner will be determined at random.

The bout is not considered ended until _after_ the fencers have saluted and the referee has declared the victor.

The distance between the on-guard lines will be shortened to reduce long, charging attacks.

The rules concerning corps-a-corps will be made uniform for all three weapons.

Placing the point on the piste an falling will no longer be penalized.

COMMENTARY: The shorter time limit and the rule concerning no touches occurring in a minute period will only significantly impact high school Women's Epee (donning Nomex suit and ducking ). Most of the other changes either don't make all that much sense to me, or (such at the one about the bout not being offically over until the salute) don't strike me as really being a change from current practice.

FINAL COMMENTARY: These all are PROPOSALS. They need to be approved by vote of the FIE Congress to actually take effect. As in the case of the foil bib becoming valid target, there's is no guarantee that such proposals will actually be accepted.

Lastly, anyone with a good knowledge of French should double check the original and correct any errors in my interpretation of the computer translation. Ich spreche Deutsch, I ya govoryu nyemnogo po russki, but my command of French is limited.

-Dave

[This message has been edited by neevel (edited 06-29-2001).]

[Peach]

It's interesting they are not proposing the elimination of the off-target in foil, as was bruited about a couple of years ago.

As for sabre, 150 ms sounds as if under the proposed rules you could score a stop-hit after the commencement of the final action of the attack and have it be one-light, which would make for interesting bouts. It would let me get away with some of my awful counter-attacks, for instance (in which I take no pride and of which I am attempting to rid myself). Also, putting the on-guard lines closer in sabre would seem to make simultaneous attacks more likely, not less. Finally, reducing the bout to 3 minutes might conceivably result in sabre referees having to carry stopwatches, though I doubt it.

It's also interesting that the wireless fencing announcement says, if I read it correctly, that only sabre will be wireless for the time being and that the men's and women's European Championships in Koblenz will be fenced wireless?

[neevel]

Here's the Systransoft output of the wireless fencing release (with some of the mis-translated words corrected):

The fencing without wire, finally! Since the epee, first weapon has
to be electrified before the second world war, the fencers had
always had a " wire with the leg ". This time is apparently
completed. The International Federation of Fencing (FIE) announces
that the SEMI commission (commission in charge of the study of
indication and the hardware) has just approved an apparatus of
recording of the keys without wire. This apparatus, developed by
researchers ukrainians with the assistance of the manufacturer of
German hardware of fencing, company ALLSTAR-uhlmann has been just seen
allotting the homologation of FIE and could thus from now on be
used in the official competitions. After many years of search (the
first apparatus had been invented by a French engineer at the end of
the Fifties) and unfruitful tests, the fencers can from now on plan
not to be seen more as puppets fixed on their wire " It is an
essential evolution for the image of our sport, for which I have
fought for several years " declared the president of FIE, Rene
Roch. " " It is also a nod to president Juan Antonio Samaranch, who is in
favour of the modernization of the fencing, at the moment when he is
on the point of leaving the presidency of the IOC " added Rene Roch
Coming from par with the homologation of the transparent mask of three
European manufacturers, these technological developments will make
conceal the detractors of the fencing in the program of the plays of
summer. For technical reasons, only the sabre will profit, for the
moment, of this homologation. Ioan Pop, directing technical of
FIE, declared: " I am very happy of this homologation and trustful
in the evolution of this type of apparatus which, I am certain, should
enable us to very quickly use it for the foil and the epee ".
Let us recall that the Championships of the World of female sabre in
July 2000 in Budapest (Hungary) already entirely proceeded with the
apparatus without wire, without no incident being to be regretted
Lastly, the tests of female and male sabre of the Championships of
Europe of Coblentz (Germany) which will take place from the 3 to July
8, 2001, will proceed with the apparatus without wire. With the exit
of these Championships of Europe, president Rene Roch could subject to
the approval of the Executive Committee of FIE the decision to use
it or not with the Championships of the World of Nimes (France) in
October-November nearest.

If it's the Ukrainian 'tin-foil-booties' system they're talking about, I really can't see it becoming at all widespread unless they've made some big-time improvements over what I last heard about it. Maybe they'll only use it until Samaranch is safely retired and out of the way.


-Dave

[DarkTransient]

FIE is hopeless.
That's all I have to say.

[Stryder]

"Hopeless" is too kind.

"Clueless" would be better. "Smoking crack" hits the nail right on the head. Here's why:

1st
Further reducing the lockout in foil and sabre. Great. It didn't work well enough the first time they did this apparently, so let's tighten it up even more.
1a: Messing with the interpretations of right of way will cause many more complaints on the strip and inconsistency among the referee's, as well as confusion on the part of the fencers.
They will adapt to the new rules as soon as the ref's are sure of them, but in the meantime, how good is constant whining going to look on TV? How exciting is a sport where the competitors clearly don't know if they've scored until the referee tells them?

2nd
Foil debounce time up to 10ms.
Say what you want about tradition, the flick is the most exciting thing to happen to foil fencing since they stopped using sharp points. Take it out and watch the era of the counter-attackers return.

2a
Banning of the fleche in foil.
Did I miss an alarming trend in foilists to fleche all over the strip? The last time I saw a fleche in a final it was the highlight of the bout! Among abd fencers the fleche is a liability that punishes itself. Among good fencers it is a rarely used suprising action.
Why do we hate the fleche again?
If you have too many simultanious actions start calling them more tightly. The fleche is not broken, why fix it?

2b
Making the back arm target area makes me wonder if our esteemed Mr. Neevel didn't share some of his margarita's with the FIE! They were obviously on a tasty buzz when they came up with that one.
Are we looking for a MORE traditional foil game here? Or a faster one? And how does this effect either? "You see the lame' is worn because foil target is limited to vital areas of the body. Except the head, and non-vital areas of the body that sometimes get in the way of the vital areas of the body. Get it? Hey! Come back!"

3rd
Shortening team matches to 3 minutes.
This one I like, team matches have never really been team events, just individual match-ups that combined to make the final dramatic or pathetic depending on the strength of the teams. Hurrying the matches might make fencers fence faster, but when it counts, fencers will work the clock even more. I predict the final encounters will start to be 3 minute bouts, starting at 28-35
Will it be MORE or LESS exciting to watch the anchors go for 20 touches rather than just 5?

3a
The one minute of boredom clause. Great idea, that would require a second timer and wouldn't change a thing except in the final bout. So now we have the two anchors going at it hard for three minutes in a bout that starts out closer to 10-7

3b
The bout will not be considered over....blah blah blah. So now we really really really have to salute? Is saluting the only thing that can save fencing? It seems pretty important to the FIE. They do not mention a penalty for not saluting so things are unchanged except your black card will be recorded as having happened during the bout instead of after the bout. The "cruelest cut" it is not.

3c
The distance between On Guard lines? Does anyone do a "long marching attack" from the on guard lines? The change will change nothing. Fencers who attack will still do so, fencers who like to bounce a bit, will still bounce a bit. I predict more misses. That's all.

3d
The rules about corps-a-corps...Will be made consistant with the application of the rules.
So now we can cause a little contact in foil? Fine, bring out the TV cameras one way or another. "Exciting foil bout! Film at eleven." Or, "Hockey breaks out at a fencing tournament." Either way, it's page 52 news.

3e
Placing the point on the strip, or falling no longer penalized. I must applaud the FIE for clarifying this. Teh rules say falling will get you a card, but the amount of falling that I saw at the 99 World champs made the best fencers in the world look like the keystone cops! And the only cards given were for removing the mask before the Ref's decision. (But Sir, it fell off when he hit the parked cars!) If the FIE wants to allow oafs to fence without penalty then fine. I am glad they are honest about it.


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[Peach]

I kinda like the idea of the one-armed lame . . . We don't look peculiar enough as it is, that's what I say.