Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Crash55 · 06-29-2001, 03:50 PM

I had been under the impression that you could change your weapon at any halt in a bout. However this past weekend a referee stopped me form changing my weapon. She said there had to be soemthing worng with it in order to change it. I just briefly looked through the rule book and couldn't find anything about this. Can someone tell me what the real rule is regarding this?

edew · 06-29-2001, 04:06 PM

Delay of bout, referee's interpretation of your actions.

neevel · 06-29-2001, 07:15 PM

Basically, there is no mention in the rules of changing a weapon for any other reason than demonstrable non-functionality or non-compliance with rules. Whether you can change a weapon just because you don't like the feel of it is pretty much up to the discretion of the referee. As Eric noted, they're free to disallow it as delay of bout.

-Dave

SteveMcDonough · 06-30-2001, 05:14 AM

Unless you were changing weapon from say epee to saber. lol

or sword to gun.

Seriously, though..
I personally can't see how swapping a sword in a halt can take up all that much time. I'm sure the other person would be glad of a 30 second breath. I would.

Steve.

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I am spitting kitty. Ftt Fttttttt. I am angry bear. Grrrrr. I am large watermelon seed stuck in your nose. Zermmmmmmmmmm. I am small biting spider in your underwear. Yub yub yub. I am shameless plagiarizer chuckling you with others' words.

sabreuse · 06-30-2001, 06:01 AM

SteveMcDonough wrote:

I am spitting kitty. Ftt Fttttttt. I am angry bear. Grrrrr. I am large watermelon seed stuck in your nose. Zermmmmmmmmmm. I am small biting spider in your underwear. Yub yub yub. I am shameless plagiarizer chuckling you with others' words.

I gotta think you've been reading some Tom Robbins. Am I close?

Stryder · 06-30-2001, 03:09 PM

I don't know about all this "angry, spitting kitty" talk. Isn't there a special folder for that now?
Just kidding.

Crash-
If the ref' tells you that you cannot do something, you are free to risk a card by apealing his decision. He will have to find the rule in the rulebook if no one at the BC agrees with him. If he can't find the rule, or come up with a plausible way to apply it to another rule.

It's a stupid idea unless you ARE using it as a delaying tactic, because if you want to change the weapon, just pop the wire off with your thumb, or pull some tape off of the tip making it non-regulation. Then it will have to be changed.

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www.geocities.com/strydermike

[This message has been edited by Stryder (edited 06-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Stryder (edited 06-30-2001).]

Sciurus Rex · 07-02-2001, 06:35 AM

To get around the director, you COULD claim that your weapon isn't working right. And you might even be able to pull a wire loose near the socket to support the claim. Unfortunately, that also means that the director will confiscate the "faulty" weapon until the end of the bout.

But (shrug) it's an idea. If you really, really want to switch weapons.

Cutter · 07-02-2001, 09:25 AM

Steve, "spitting kitty," are you sure you aren't women's foil? heheheheh

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Cutter
"It's just a flesh wound."

oiuyt · 07-02-2001, 09:35 AM

Or as an extreme example that I actually witnessed once...

Fencer A, after being turned down for switching out a functional weapon, asked permission to straighten it. Snap. "Now may I change weapons sir?"

-B

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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

veeco · 07-02-2001, 05:00 PM

My answer when I want to change weapons and people ask me why is:

"Sir, I am getting mild electric shocks during the action, it must not be properly insulated".

SteveMcDonough · 07-02-2001, 08:55 PM

HALT!

Okay?!

The quote was sent to me in an e-mail, as a part of a much larger message. (The rest mentioned ratial equality in smurfs.

I thought it was good.

Steve.

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I am spitting kitty. Ftt Fttttttt. I am angry bear. Grrrrr. I am large watermelon seed stuck in your nose. Zermmmmmmmmmm. I am small biting spider in your underwear. Yub yub yub. I am shameless plagiarizer chuckling you with others' words.

MikeHarm · 07-04-2001, 09:55 AM

If your weapon is still working, why would you want to change the weapon during a bout except as a delaying tactic?

Mike

its_me_mango · 07-05-2001, 09:51 AM

there are so many problems with electrical equipment, sometimes its the wires, sometimes, the blade feels loose, why not give someone a break to let them change their weapon, both fencers get a break for a few seconds. I don't see what all the temper tantrums are about, look at basketball, how many time outs are there in a game?

Stryder · 07-05-2001, 11:42 AM

Mango-
There are 4 per team if they take them.
But they are closely watched and used strategically. Fencers who want a break need only reach down and tie their shoe. NEVER ask for permission to tie your shoe, just do it.
If you ask for permission the Ref' can say no. You are not allowed any time outs for shoe tying. If you just do it. He will just tell you to hurry up.
If you make a issue of tying your shoe a lot, he may card you for delay of bout.
Since the rules require your weapon to be straight, you can waste some time doing that too. There is no time limit, as long as it is done without delay.
Women can take off their masks and re-tie their hair.
Drop your weapon to the strip and adjust your glove.
If a rest is what you want, you can take 30 seconds just by looking busy.
If you want to be a jerk about it, ask the Ref' to retest your opponent's tip.
Or claim your last touch was on target and spend some time poking around their lame' and tugging on wires with a consciencous look on your face. "Gee, I was sure that was on."
Walk back to the end of your strip and move the reel back and off to the side, "For safety's sake." Who could argue? In fact let me move your reel too.

If you want to waste time, just do it. There is no reason for Ref's to keep fencers from changing weapons in 10 seconds if it's delay of bout that they are worried about.

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www.geocities.com/strydermike

its_me_mango · 07-05-2001, 11:51 AM

women can take off their masks and tie back their hair?

you are kidding me....what about the men? I think they should be allowed to take off their masks and tie back their hair or smoosch their mustashes or something also. Another point: tieing shoes, you HAVE to take off your glove to tie you shoe just right, do the refs shout and appel you if you take off you glove to tie your shoe? ANOTHER question: why do the reps "worry" so much about delays?

Crash55 · 07-05-2001, 05:22 PM

I thought something was wrong with the weapon is why I wnated to switch it. However I couldn't make it reproduce it so she wouldn't let me. It wasn't a delaying tactic though it did give me a little break and I did better afterwards.

Normally if I wnat a break I just take off my mask and wipe my forehead. If I need mroe i walk to the back of the strip and back as I do it. Also the side support on my shoes slide up so stopping to push them down will also gie me a break.

Stryder · 07-05-2001, 09:42 PM

Mango-
I didn't mean to imply that there is a rule allowing women extra time for hair care. There isn't but if you need to do it, don't ask.

Why do ref's worry about delay of bout? Some because it's a rule. Some because a fencer losing isn't specifically allowed time to think about the bout.
Most simply want the bout to get over in the alloted time. Some fencers can make a match they are losing last for hours if they think it willrattle their opponent. (Yes Mr. Mormando, I mean you.)

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www.geocities.com/strydermike