Changes to Foil

[ReverseLunge]

I think that the head should be made valid target in Foil. The only reason it isn't is because adequate facial protection was difficult in the 17th century, the head is not valid target area

[lefty_monster]

you just want to make everyone buy new masks, don't you?!?

just kidding. I'm neutral on this topic.

[Epeecurean]

I agree with the idea of mask as target. Lethal target area is in keeping with foil. Don't know how I feel about arms though. Maybe the shoulder/upper arm per the Italian rules in the early 20th century but not down to the hand.

[hpfencing]

I think the timing changes is enough for foil at the moment.....

[gatorjosh]

If they are going to do that, just make it the whole head and not the bib. At least we can just use a saber mask.

[D'Art]

I think, if anything, leave the mask off target for now, and make the arms on target, as this would be more in keeping with foils' origins as a training weapon. Although, if given the choice I would happily go back to old tmings and undo all the changes the Roach has made to foil.

[R. Exnicios]

the 3 weapons should be different. The changes are getting very close to the 3 weapons being the same. From outsides looking at our sport it looks like we don't have our act together. Radical rule changes every season looks really bad. I honestly think that all of Rene's changes are going to be very detrimental to the sport. He is doing far more harm than good.

Let's put our foot down and SAY NO!

R

Cheers

[swordsen]

I would go for saying NO, but who do we say it to? (That will listen or care?)

[Araznal]

I agree with the idea of mask as target. Lethal target area is in keeping with foil. Don't know how I feel about arms though. Maybe the shoulder/upper arm per the Italian rules in the early 20th century but not down to the hand.

I'm sick of people looking for some realism in foil (not accusing anyone here). In epee, it's like a duel. In sabre, it's kind of like cavalry sabre except no horses. In foil, people claim that it's the lethality of the touch that matters. That's just not true. If it were, we would have all the arteries marked off and have them as target area . The scapula or the hip would not be counted because chances are, nobody's going to die if they get hit there.

Let's all admit that there's really nothing about foil that's realistic.

R. really says it best, though.

[cherubknight]

I agree with R as well here, the three weapons are different and should remain as such. I have sort of gotten used to the idea, as it seems that should the changes go through, there is ultimately little to be done....but Im still against it!!

[OROD]

I think that the head should be made valid target in Foil. The only reason it isn't is because adequate facial protection was difficult in the 17th century, the head is not valid target area

Hey, ReverseLunge, are you on crack?

People just need to stop this whole "it's a new season so we need new changes to Foil" crap. Ok? The head isnt valid target in foil, and there's no good reason to change it! Same thing with the bib. Same thing with the weapon arm. No more f***ing changes already.

Note to people making the "if this was a real weapon" argument: Go away! Here's where you want to be:

http://www.sca.org/

Fencing, and especially Foil fencing, is never going to be able to grow and prosper if it's in a constant state of flux like this. Fencers wont want to fence Foil because they'll get fed up with all the BS... I know I'm getting fed up with it.

I'd rather stop fencing altogether and spend my energy on a sport that doesnt suck rather than constantly having to spend more money on new equipment and retrain myself because some a-hole decided to change the rules. How much time did I practice flicking? How about all the people who with the new rules find that their twist-counter moves, or quick remises are now a great asset to them and are building their whole game around it? What happens when they change the timings again and those quick remises or counters are now no good because their opponents can actually land their actions within the shutout time? What happens is now they're screwed, that's what!

And what about the spectators, or the TV cameras, or whatever the supposed reason is for all the changes? I'll tell you what... all these changes wont make foil one bit more understandable to them than it is now. What they need is someone to tell them what the rules are and they'll get it. Simple as that. Think about it, if all the changes in foil are to make it more "spectator friendly", then why isnt epeé on TV all the time? It's because most people dont know anything about fencing, they never see it on TV, and it doesnt involve someone hitting a ball with something... and hence American TV isnt interested in showing it. Dont know, dont care... that's all there is to it.

And another thing, even if by some miracle we actually start seeing fencing on TV, what are people going to think about all the constant changes? What are they going to think when they see people hitting each other and nothing happens? What are the commentators going to say, "Well, you see, that hit landed but it never registered (as you can see in the instant replay) because of the contact time... see it used to be like 5 milliseconds, then it was more like 14 milliseconds, then it was something like 12... oh, and you have to understand about how the circuit works and the microbreaks..." Oh, yeah, they'll get that.

Try to explain to them how the FIE makes far reaching rule changes without testing them. Try to explain to them the reasons for those changes. They'll think fencing is a joke. And they'll be right. Hell, give it a couple more years of this and that's what I'll be thinking too... but, I'll be thinking it while practicing something else.


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[Alan]

If you want the mask being valid go to Epee.

Leave foil alone.

And please stop this "realism" thing. Modern foil is a sport nothing to do with
duels.

The only change that foil needs is to change the FIE from thinking
that foil needs to be changed.