FIE Med Commission on Plexiglass masks

[esskreemr]

Interesting. The MedCom said that they believe the masks as homologated by the manufacturers to be safe, BUT are concerned about the continued integrity of the masks. They advised the FIE to "postpone the obligatory masks until the testing of safety of the masks with use can be established."

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...utesJune05.pdf

The Commission decided that without appropriate data regarding the safety of used masks it could not support transparent masks being obligatory and recommended the following decision to the COMEX: “Although the safety of newly manufactured transparent masks homologated by the FIE is not in question, no satisfactory mechanism for assessing the on-going safety of the
masks has been established. In light of the many elements that can undermine the integrity of the visor and the risk of serious life-threatening injury if a visor fails, the Medical Commission strongly recommends that the obligatory use of these transparent masks is postponed until such time as a dependable method for testing the safety of the masks with use can be established”.

[Be_Like_Water]

YAY.

What genius thought that extra 3x4 inch window made this sport "spectator-friendly"?? seriously...

[Araznal]

Let's see... what would the FIE say about this?...

"Progress cannot be postponed. The new masks are an integral part of the new fencing proposed by M. Roch and must be obligatory."

[Agent_V]

What I found much more disturbing was Mr. Roch's response to med commission concerns about visor safety: "The problem of safety is not the visor but rather the use of orthopedic grips..."

So, there are in fact two solutions to the safety issue:
1) revert to normal masks
2) ban ortho grips

I'm afraid I don't see the second one happening in the next century, and it seems that Roch is of the mindset that the first option doesn't exist. Welcome to the pre-challenger NASA mentality: "Nobody's died yet, so it's safe, right?"

What's the point of the medical commission again?

Alexander

[esskreemr]

I would like to reiterate the point of liability. If one of these masks fail after the Executive committee makes them obligatory, the sport of fencing as we know it would be sued underground. Particularly with the MedCom's statement now on the records.

To proceed with this without adequate safety testing over a longer period of time would be foolish and a incredibly stupid risk.

[OROD]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

To proceed with this without adequate safety testing over a longer period of time would be foolish and a incredibly stupid risk.

Foolish and incredibly stupid? Dude, that sounds exactly like something the FIE would do.


.

[great bowyer]

i also saw that the article mentions two incidents of the visor masks failing during sabre and epee bouts.

Already there have been at least 2 reports of transparent mask
failures (Pascu witnessed one personally in Womens Sabre in Budapest in Jan 2004; Defoligny-
Rayaume reported the same problem for Flessel-Colovic (Womens Epée) in 2005).

also, what transparent mask is cheaper than other FIE masks?

President Roch replied that transparent
masks cost less than other FIE masks

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by Araznal

Let's see... what would the FIE say about this?...

"Progress cannot be postponed. The new masks are an integral part of the new fencing proposed by M. Roch and must be obligatory."

Why do people in charge of safety for an Olympic sport ignore physicians that warn them that an idea might kill people?! What do the FIE’s lawyers think about the lawsuits that would arise if an athlete is killed due to a failed visor mask (particularly if it happened in the USA?!) I'm just glad the FIE is not in charge of making safety rules for skeet shooting and archery.

Roch wants to ban pistol grips in favor of visor masks?! I'd love to hear what The FIE Congress would have to say about that! I could be wrong, but my money says that The Congress would trash this idea faster than a proposal mandating that masks be made entirely of Saran Wrap.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

Roch wants to ban pistol grips in favor of visor masks?! I'd love to hear what The FIE Congress would have to say about that! I could be wrong, but my money says that The Congress would trash this idea faster than a proposal mandating that masks be made entirely of Saran Wrap.

Well not a surprise here. His Majesty wants to impose Foilepee as a first step
towards the elimination of foil.

Almost no epeist uses pistol grips.

The constant creative ideas of King Rene to destroy foil now clearly show
where he wants to go.

By the way if these stupid clear visors masks were really safe, should they resist one type of grips and not the other ???

[lefty_monster]

first off, all but one of the epeeists that i know use pistol grips.

secondly, i have always hated those lexan masks, period. i like being hidden and not eing able to see my opponant, either. it makes it easier to fight without hate. (if that makes any sense at all)

and yeah, i REALLY need to see the sweat trickling off of the other guy's nose?

the one and only time it might be cool is when you do that perfect move and make the perfect touch. then i might enjoy the look of surprise on the other guy's face.

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by Alan

Almost no epeist uses pistol grips.

Okay, now you are just smoking crack. At tourneys in my area I see more French grip foil fencers than I do epee fencers. The difference is that the French grip epee fence is much more likely to have a clue and be a dangerous fencer instead of just being too new/old to know any better. I am no cockroach fan but don't go smearing the perfect weapon of light and glory in your zeal to rant against roach and his stupid changes! Get your facts straight. Otherwise you are the same as roach, making **** up in your rush to be proven right and sound like you have a clue. "Almost no epee fencers use pistol grips" my ***. That is almost as stupid, and in the same vain, as roach saying that the flick came about because of FIE blades...

[Peach]

I've used my transparent visor sabre mask for four (admittedly long) days of fencing and it's already thoroughly scratched, with a good-sized nick taken out of the center.

[edew]

Hey, I bet that one resulted in a touch for you, right?

[Peach]

Nah--It's sabre--unless you're really off target something gets hit.

[Frank Pratt]

Maybe that's why so few people are complaining about touches not registering when they "only" land on the visor. On the other hand, a point-in-line to the forehead might be somewhat risky for the attacker and the defender. At least you sabreists don't use those "deadly" pistol grips.

[Sciurus-Rex]

I don't know why they don't work on implementing the transparent alumnium material introduced in the Star Trek movie (the one where they had to save the whales)?

[sabreur]

no satisfactory mechanism for assessing the on-going safety of the
masks has been established

Isn't that what DHCJr has been saying for the last year?

MR

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Alan

Almost no epeist uses pistol grips.

Alan

Although we may agree on the subject of clear plastic masks. This statement is complete rubbish. Plenty of Epeeists ues ortho grips - even at the vaunted top 150 level. Check it out for yourself.

[Gav]

And while we are on this subject. What about these half-perspex masks? With mesh on the bottom and perspex on top the sport will be open to even more derision than it was before. Who wants to do a sport wear you are made to look like some sort of Fencing clown from a naff SF show? ugh. I dispair. Seems like roch is really trying his best to encourage me to not take part.

[R. Exnicios]

How do we impeach Rene?

I know we cannot but it's a nice dream!

R