FIE SEMI Commission Opinions concerning FIE COngress recommendations.

[esskreemr]

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...202005-ANG.pdf

4 Propositions relating to foil:

Prop 1:
Reincorporate the bib as valid surface at foil.
Opinion of the SEMI : From a technological point of view, reincorporate the bib as a valid surface is not a problem. However, the aspect of safety should be studied by the Medical Commission and Ad Hoc Commission for foil.

Prop 4:
To add to the article t5.7 : At foil, during the bout (between the orders ON GUARD and HALT), the arm, forearm and unarmed hand must never stand in front of the chest.

Opinion of the SEMI : This proposition should be studied by the Refereeing Commission, the SEMI Commission shall only study the technological aspects related to the increase of the valid surface of arms when they cover the target.

Prop 6:
Suppression of the lighting of the white lamp at foil : adopt the conclusions of the ad-hoc Commission in respect of the suppression of the non-valid surface at foil.

Opinions of SEMI:
- The SEMI Commission will adopt the conclusions of the ad hoc Commission and according to their recommendations, will establish what is necessary from a technological point of view.
- A conductive piste at foil will no longer be necessary due to the suppression of the white lamp.
- The circuits will become easier without white lamp, thus will enable the wireless system to be adopted at foil.

Wireless Foil:
At the Assembly, the representatives of the STM Company, Messrs. Andrey MAKARUCHENKO and Yuri LERER, the designers of the wireless system at Sabre used in Grand Prix, World Championships and Olympic Games – have accepted the FIE challenge to produce a wireless system at foil. On Saturday 28 May 2005, at the Sabre Grand Prix of Senegal, this Company made a demonstration of this system, with Senegalese Sabre fencers on the piste, before the final, which was a great success. The system is ready to be
implemented.

STM is currently selling the conductive T-Shirt necessary for their wireless system at Sabre at approximately EUR 32, while Allstar is selling it at EUR 38. This T-Shirt is the same as the one used for the wirelessm system at foil.

There are currently three manufacturers leading the market in respect of hit recording apparatus without winding system, which are called wireless : Marciano, Zivkovic and STM.

The leader companies mentioned above should not have the monopole of wireless apparatus. The other companies, which are also interested in this system, should also propose their ideas.

Thanks to close and regular contacts of the SEMI with these manufacturers, their projects can be followed. We are thinking of organising a public exhibition for the manufacturers during the 2005 Congress in Qatar.

Transparent Masks:
The mask with transparent visor can be used at foil, epee and sabre. But if the mask becomes totally transparent, it will be appropriate at foil but no longer at epee, because of its slippery surface.

If sole the visor is transparent, there is no problem neither at foil nor at epee.
The SEMI decides to notify in writing all the manufacturers that all the masks must be sold together with a certificate of cloth of 1600 newton.

Video Refereeing system:
The use of the video to help the refereeing is a priority for the IOC and the FIE. The SEMI tested at the CIP in Paris, at Senior Men’s Foil (21-23 January 2005) and at the Tokyo Grand Prix at Senior Women’s Foil and Men’s Foil (11-13 March 2005) a professional system of Sony, which includes a
camera, a monitor, a hard disk engraver ? and a controller enabling slow motion. This system offers the possibility to view the passed action at any requested speed while the on-going actions keep to be recorded.

In fencing, tests carried out with the video have shown that only 3 seconds back are necessary to establish the weapon’s phrase.

Wrestling is using a simple camera, which allows slow motion.
Tests will carry on during the 2005 Leipzig World Championships.

Judging Apparatus:
In the course of the 2004-2005 season, more than 3000 apparatus, in the entire world, have been modified in order to comply with the new norms at Sabre and Foil (according to the manufacturers). It is therefore not easy to modify the norms.

Alarming e-mails in respect of non-recorded hits are sometimes sent by people, who do not know well the material.

25 years ago, Mr. Tibor Szekely had already given explanations on the non-recorded hits because of microbreaks, which already occurred long time ago. Nowadays, only very few hits are not recorded. Fencers must get used to a new way of scoring hits with the new timing.
The question to be raised is whether the apparatus should be adapted to the fencers or vice-versa. Some apparatus of some manufacturers, which do have microbreaks problems are currently under study.

The President reads a letter sent by the fencer Salvatore SANZO concerning the new rules at foil and the increase of the valid surface.
All the members of the Commission will receive a copy of the procedure to test the judging apparatus at sabre, to enable them study the electrical judging apparatus and propose possible changes in the testing procedure.

[misha]

From page 3 of this document:

At the 2005 FIE General Assembly, which was held in Linz before the Junior World Championships (22 March 2005) Mr. Frédéric MARCIANO, in liaison with the SEMI, made a demonstration of his wireless system at epee (with conductive jacket, gloves and breeches) and half transparent mask (this mask is transparent from the mouth and up, and is more appropriate at foil). In this system, the registering of the hit is reversed (the light is lit on the mask of the hit person). This demonstration interested many representatives of the nations present.

I guess manufacturers do not care about the sport itself...
They just want to make a quick buck.
Too sad that money speaks and influence the rules.


.

[Purple Fencer]

I don't see why you'd need lame ANYTHING in epee...it's a simple physical closure of the circuit...Donald??

[jBirch]

Purple,

The issue is distinguishing toe hits from floor hits without the conductive piste.

James.

[gatorjosh]

Well, then you would need conductive shoes also.

[misha]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

I don't see why you'd need lame ANYTHING in epee...it's a simple physical closure of the circuit...Donald??

To sell Lames and "conductive breeches" to every epee fencer in the world?


.

[esskreemr]

Epee is about to become more expensive than foil and sabre combined... that's really turning the sport on its end...

[OROD]

Nowadays, only very few hits are not recorded.

BS. I regularly have 15 touch bouts where 3, 4, or more solid touches do not register. That is not "a few hits", that's a significant percentage.

Fencers must get used to a new way of scoring hits with the new timing.

No we dont.

The question to be raised is whether the apparatus should be adapted to the fencers or vice-versa.

We fence so that we can improve our skills and compete against others who also strive to do so. We dont fence to become the one "most well adapted to the apparatus"!


.

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by OROD

BS. I regularly have 15 touch bouts where 3, 4, or more solid touches do not register. That is not "a few hits", that's a significant percentage.

No we dont.

We fence so that we can improve our skills and compete against others who also strive to do so. We dont fence to become the one "most well adapted to the apparatus"!

.

I liked the very condescending wording of that particular section:

Alarming e-mails in respect of non-recorded hits are sometimes sent by people, who do not know well the material.

25 years ago, Mr. Tibor Szekely had already given explanations on the non-recorded hits because of microbreaks, which already occurred long time ago. Nowadays, only very few hits are not recorded. Fencers must get used to a new way of scoring hits with the new timing.
The question to be raised is whether the apparatus should be adapted to the fencers or vice-versa. Some apparatus of some manufacturers, which do have microbreaks problems are currently under study.

Implying the people that are complaining don't know what they are talking about and then referencing a 25 year old explanation. According to the name, I can only assume that the guy was Hungarian. I found no reference whatsoever to him or his explanations of "microbreaks". If these issues were so "well known" (at least by the FIE cabal in charge of destroying foil), why weren't they made well known as part of the procedure and discussion/testing?

Sounds like an afterthought: "Hey! Look, I found this obscure reference concerning this problem in a Hungarian document from 25 years ago! This will show those fencers that they are a bunch of idiots!"

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by gatorjosh

Well, then you would need conductive shoes also.

Not if you modify the epee target! See, problem solved! :)

-B :)

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

they'll also need lame socks....

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

they'll also need lame socks....

They're appear to be trying to make epee a lame weapon.... :)

K, change the target to be knees and above (perhaps starting with the bottom of the kneecap?).

Sounds nearly as bad as some of the changes proposed to foil (back arm and upper front arm becoming target).

At least the sabre fencers probably don't feel so bad about the nice deadspot in the middle of the masks any more.... Comparatively we got off easy. :)

-B :)

[Gav]

I like the way no one has put accents over the e thus making lamé lame - which of course it is.

[steyr762khx]

Why all the buisness with covering epeeists with lameness when they're going to institute instant replay? I'd figure these millions of spectators we're supposed to be attracting would enjoy watching slow motion shots to the groin/kneecap/other painful areas then see very shiny athletes.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Gav

I like the way no one has put accents over the e thus making lamé lame - which of course it is.

Unless I write this in Word and then, copy it to Fencing 101, I can’t get any of the accents to come out. So lamé comes out lame. At least I haven’t found an easy way. In word I just do Control’, then e and I get lamé. There is sometime trouble when Word thinks it knows what you mean and corrects my spelling by removing the ‘. I just tell it no, and it sometimes listens to me.

[OROD]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Unless I write this in Word and then, copy it to Fencing 101, I can’t get any of the accents to come out. So lamé comes out lame. At least I haven’t found an easy way. In word I just do Control’, then e and I get lamé. There is sometime trouble when Word thinks it knows what you mean and corrects my spelling by removing the ‘. I just tell it no, and it sometimes listens to me.

Just type "Alt + 0233" which is the ascii number of é. Then you can be as lamé as you want to be.

=)

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Gav

I like the way no one has put accents over the e thus making lamé lame - which of course it is.

Yes, just like we don't put accents over epee, because it is French for bathroom break.

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by misha

From page 3 of this document:
Quote:
At the 2005 FIE General Assembly, which was held in Linz before the Junior World Championships (22 March 2005) Mr. Frédéric MARCIANO, in liaison with the SEMI, made a demonstration of his wireless system at epee (with conductive jacket, gloves and breeches) and half transparent mask (this mask is transparent from the mouth and up, and is more appropriate at foil). In this system, the registering of the hit is reversed (the light is lit on the mask of the hit person). This demonstration interested many representatives of the nations present.

I guess manufacturers do not care about the sport itself...
They just want to make a quick buck.
Too sad that money speaks and influence the rules.and influence the rules.
.

I guess making epeeists look like cyborgs is supposed to draw the media. The "CLANK-CLANK-CLANK" as they move up and down the strip would be interesting.

How do armoruers feel about having to test and stamp several pieces of conductive clothing for each epeeist?!

This idea is ridiculous. If they really want wireless epee, I think someone could figure out a way to do it without covering the fencer in a huge lamé. I still think a simple transmitter/receiver system with encrypted signals will work fine. It may not work for a 50 strip setup, but if they are going to use it on just a few "finals" strips at FIE events, I am sure the problems regarding interference and security could be solved.

[peet]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

This idea is ridiculous. I certainly hope that it's a joke! If they really want wireles epee, I think someone could figure out a way to do it without covering the fencer in a huge lame.

I got an idea:
Instead of making every fencer buy/maintain all that extra stuff, we could make the floor conductive, and use some simple wire-based system to connect everything. Doesn't that sound like a goo-

Oh wait....

-p