07-24-2005, 12:15 PM
|
#41 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 9,094
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata MrBiggs mentions that the Congress doesn't always give Roch his way. I have not noticed this independence, myself. Like Roosevelt's attempt to pack the US Supreme Court by expanding it, Roch has created a large number of Federations beholden to him. The Congress does not exist in isolation. Otherwise we would not have the new timings or video judging or transparent masks,IMO. | Given that Roch lobbied for the removal of off-target in foil 2 and 3 years ago (and then withdrew the motion each year prior to the Congress vote when it became clear that he would lose), MrBiggs is correct. Having packed the congress with lots of beholden federations helps, but doesn't (quite) give carte blanche.
-B :)
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
| 
|  | | And now for this message... |
| |
07-24-2005, 05:18 PM
|
#42 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 550
| I have asked this before and I know the answer but I must.
Can't we get ride of King Ren?
I am getting so Tired of feeling like I am a member of "The rule of the Month club"
Just had to vent
Cheers
R | 
| | |
07-24-2005, 05:54 PM
|
#43 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Carolina über Alles
Posts: 2,608
| I really hate to say this, but...I love epee' and have worked grueling hours and fenced countless tournaments to get my B in it. That being said: If a full body lame' or something that grossly expensive or ridiculous becomes law, then I will quit the sport outright until either the decision is changed or I move to a sabre area. I really hate both those options because I love this sport, but that's how it's going to have to be.
__________________
RebelFencer's Awesome Quote of the Week:
"Encouraging the average age of first intercourse to go below 16?"
-Army Fencer
| |
| | |
07-24-2005, 07:46 PM
|
#44 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London
Posts: 176
| realistically, i don't think that the average epeeist would have to worry about the full body lame, as long as all the other rules of target area stayed the same. as everyone notes, roch is only interested in the top level, and so only top level fencers would have to deal with those problems. after all, the majority of bfa tournaments that i do have no metallic pistes but we get on with it ok.
as for the changes in foil, i really have no opinion. i have been fencing since 1992 and i still can't see the point of foil. | |
| | |
07-24-2005, 08:06 PM
|
#45 | | Scavenger
Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,674
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by the doc i have been fencing since 1992 and i still can't see the point of foil. | I believe it's the skinny end, not the one with the handle.
__________________
it is all looking very Grave, I feel it is the Clam before the Storm and no mistake
--Terry Pratchett, Jingo | |
| | |
07-25-2005, 12:54 AM
|
#46 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,235
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Peach I believe it's the skinny end, not the one with the handle. | He probably just needs glasses or something. | |
| | |
07-25-2005, 10:21 AM
|
#47 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Cartersville, GA
Posts: 630
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by the doc realistically, i don't think that the average epeeist would have to worry about the full body lame, as long as all the other rules of target area stayed the same. as everyone notes, roch is only interested in the top level, and so only top level fencers would have to deal with those problems. | That's true. I don't see wireless sabre making its way to non-FIE events anytime soon (not in the U.S., at least.)
__________________
To be predictable is to be hit often.
| |
| | |
07-25-2005, 01:22 PM
|
#48 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mid-West USA
Posts: 613
| IF the issue is the Olympics, and IF the rationale is to make IOC happy -- why doesn't the IOC, FIE or USFA simply provide the equipment for the event?
Face it, 99.9% of us will never fence in the olympics. Personally, I don't care if olympic fencers have to wear polka dots. What I am worried about is all these changes trickling down and negatively impacting our sport at the local, regional and national level.
It would just seem to make sense that at some level of competition, the FIE or USFA says, "due to the nature of competition and requirements placed on us by outside agencies (IOC,etc.) all uniforms, weapons, masks, lame's, body cords, scoring machines and peripheral equipment will be provided to the competitor by this governing agency for this event."
If they put their money where their mouth is, I tend to have a higher opinion of the actual need for the changes.
Regards,
Feltan | |
| | |
07-25-2005, 04:52 PM
|
#49 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,235
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by DHCJr A little inconvenient. Many fencers in pool competitions at the end of each bout will test the weight with the weight that is the official weight. I can see it now, calling over your opponent and having them stand there so you can test your weapon.
At the beginning of the bout one fencer gets hooked up first, so the referee tests their weapon. Now he has to wait for both fencers to be hooked up and both there before he can test weapons. | How about having an extra A line plugged into the box, that doesn't go to the reel and can be attached to the weight? Won't allow testing by others during a bout, but doesn't require your opponent to be hooked up before you get tested. | |
| | |
07-25-2005, 06:07 PM
|
#50 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: London
Posts: 502
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by mrbiggs For the record, é is most easily done as ALT-130. (Also, keep in mind that other accents are from about 128 to the one fifties.) | i actually find alt-Gr + e is the easiest. (é) Quote: |
I think it's important to keep in mind that Roch is kind of crazy, and that he can propose as much as he wants. The congress needs to vote on it, and they've always been far more thoughtful in what they pass. I'd be very surprised if the FIE Congress passes the epee lamé requirements, as it's a stupid idea.
| I think you are right on this, I am less confident on some of the foil changes.
__________________
I caught this morning morning’s minion, king-
dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
Stirred for a bird,—the achieve of; the mastery of the thing! | |
| | |
07-25-2005, 06:10 PM
|
#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: London
Posts: 502
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata Yes, that rather irked me as well. Part and parcel of the attitude toward anyone who disagrees with any point of Roch's brilliant visionary plans for fencing. | i wonder if any of the manufacturers who post on here would care to comment on how long they have been aware of the "microbreaks" issue and whether they think the timing changes have made any difference. Or are they the ones writing the emails?  
__________________
I caught this morning morning’s minion, king-
dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
Stirred for a bird,—the achieve of; the mastery of the thing! | |
| | |
07-26-2005, 05:58 AM
|
#52 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by the doc
as for the changes in foil, i really have no opinion. i have been fencing since 1992 and i still can't see the point of foil.
| Neither can Roch apparently.
Instead of spoiling foil all the time, why doesn't he create a 4th Experimental Arm called for instance Foilepee or any other name he likes (Romankfoil,
Boringfoil, Passivefoil, Soporifoil, Olympifoil, TVfoil ...)
with all his creative ideas :
test timings, 750g tip, clear visor masks, valid bibs, good doctors (because of the clear visor masks and valid bibs) ...
And we will see which one is preferred by the foilists and the spectators. | |
| | |
07-26-2005, 06:28 AM
|
#53 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5
| I wonder why there are no off-targets in sabre... | |
| | |
07-26-2005, 07:00 AM
|
#54 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,494
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Alexander I wonder why there are no off-targets in sabre... | There used to be, before electric scoring. When they went to electic scoring, they did away with the off-target to simplify the electrical scheme. Doesn't really affect the game very much.
__________________
Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
| |
| | |
07-26-2005, 04:11 PM
|
#55 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,769
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by sabreur There used to be, before electric scoring. When they went to electic scoring, they did away with the off-target to simplify the electrical scheme. Doesn't really affect the game very much. | There did? I don't remember that. The only appropriate calls for the judges were "Yes", "No", and "Abstain". An attack which hit, say, the leg was "No", but didn't stop the action as it does in foil...unless my memory has badly let me down.
I've never really understoof the rationale for off-target lights stopping the action. Essentially they penalize the wrong person, making a perfectly valid riposte, say, not count simply because your opponent bungled his attack... | |
| | |
07-26-2005, 04:17 PM
|
#56 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,919
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata There did? I don't remember that. The only appropriate calls for the judges were "Yes", "No", and "Abstain". An attack which hit, say, the leg was "No", but didn't stop the action as it does in foil...unless my memory has badly let me down. | Ha!
Yes, No, Abstain, or Foul/Non-Valid were the calls.
It did stop the action.
Sabreur is correct.
Round 1
Codger A 1 : 0 Codger B
__________________
Quit touchin' me, ya freak
F.Net Rule #1: E. L. E. (everybody love everybody)
| |
| | |
07-26-2005, 04:22 PM
|
#57 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Beaverton, OR, USA
Posts: 1,578
| Quote: |
I've never really understoof the rationale for off-target lights stopping the action. Essentially they penalize the wrong person, making a perfectly valid riposte, say, not count simply because your opponent bungled his attack...
| No. If the defender takes the blade or causes the attack to fall short, they've correctly taken right-of-way, and any off target from the initial attacker will be a continuation.
The off-target hit means that the attack was the correct action, but failed to go to the correct target. It's a push situation: the person with ROW is acknowledged. However, because they did not hit valid target, no point is awarded. This rewards risk-taking on the part of the person with ROW.
darius | |
| | |
07-26-2005, 04:27 PM
|
#58 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,769
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mr Epee Ha!
Yes, No, Abstain, or Foul/Non-Valid were the calls.
It did stop the action.
Sabreur is correct.
Round 1
Codger A 1 : 0 Codger B | I think I have an old copy of the rule book from the dry sabre era; I'll check to make sure, but I definitely do not remember that fourth call of yours... | |
| | |
07-26-2005, 04:45 PM
|
#59 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,494
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata I think I have an old copy of the rule book from the dry sabre era; I'll check to make sure, but I definitely do not remember that fourth call of yours... | Quart,
Alzheimers isn't supposed to set in quite yet. Off-target was a call used during the steam era, and it stopped the action, just as it does now in foil. There is a somewhat infamous story of a Hungarian pulling his knickers down at a world championship to show that he had been hit off-target...
MR
__________________
Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
| |
| | |
07-26-2005, 04:49 PM
|
#60 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,725
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata There did? I don't remember that. The only appropriate calls for the judges were "Yes", "No", and "Abstain". An attack which hit, say, the leg was "No", but didn't stop the action as it does in foil...unless my memory has badly let me down. | Your memory has badly let you down. 
There were 4 calls--yes, no, abstain & off-target.
Off-target would stop the action.
--Philistine | |
| | |
