Parry 5

[Prince Twilight]

When I parry 5 in sabre, should my guard point up or forward? I was originally taught to point it forward, but my coach says that it is weak if I don't point it up. I see his point-- pointing it forward means they can smash the blade down... so the second way is better, right?

Also, if they feint 5, I make my parry, and they attack in 3, should I bring my arm down to parry 3 or use 2? It seems faster to just parry 2 but that might be because I've been doing that for a while.

[Welted 24/7]

Up, without a doubt. Your coach is right. You'll get a much stronger parry with the edge instead of the flat of the blade. Besides that, a particularly sneaky opponent will notice that and just start cracking you on the wrist when you take 5.

I'm not entirely certain what a 2 is, but if it is what I think it is, you'd be a lot better off just going back to 3. Of course, the best thing would be not to get taken in by the feint to begin with, but in the eventuality, I would say a 3.

[annacattiva]

To reply both to this question and to the other questions that you posed in another thread...

Your 5 parry should be whatever works. I've found that for me, it works best with the guard pointing up and foward. Strong enough to stop the cut, rolled forward enough to protect my fingers from injury.

As for parry 2... 3 is stronger. Best idea, though, is to wait until the last minute to parry and then you won't fall for that first feint.

And as to all of these questions: do you pay your coach? I'd listen to what your coach tells you. If you have a question, ask your coach. It's much easier for someone to Show you what to do and why than it is to type it.

[rcmatthews]

If you have made a parry in quinte you can basically let gravity carry your arm back into a parry in tierce. A true seconde, as i was taught, would basically be dropping your point down. I was told that such a parry is generally used to defend the leg in epee. Something that i do on occasion is basically bring my blade down and towards three, making a semicircle. However I only do this when Im trying to be flashy, and Im not entirely convinced of why it would be effective to use instead of a simple parry three.

[Purple Fencer]

Also...going from 5 to 3 is much faster in terms of time (due t shorter travel for your blade to be in a position to parry) than 5 to 2...plus, if you parry in 3, you can more easily riposte...a true 2 is difficult to riposte from in sabre (at least it is for me)

[oso97]

2 isn't an entirely useless parry in modern sabre. I see it used quite often against stopcuts to the wrist, for example.

[prototoast]

2 isn't an entirely useless parry in modern sabre. I see it used quite often against stopcuts to the wrist, for example.

2 is also good from time to time just to give your opponent a different look. I'd say 3 is definitely stronger and should be used most of the time, but mixing in 2 in the right situation may work to your advantage.

[whtouche]

I can't believe the number of people advocating using three as a transition from five, instead of two.
Two is much faster and likely more effected. If you're in five because you've fallen for a feint your opponant is likely already cutting to your three. Parry two is quicker, no time to waste. It's also safer than dropping your hand into three, depending on the distance, as a parry two will not place any of your target in the way of your opponants blade. Three will.

[KD5MDK]

I would think most people who were feinted into 5 and facing a flank cut would do better to use two, as it's faster to twist the wrist than drop it. As for the riposte, if you've done a high two, you'd be in a great spot for that embarrassing cheek/face slash.
If someone's caught you in five, the logical target is the forearm, and dropping into a three makes it much more likely you'll catch the blade on the way down.

[sabreur]

I use seconde (2) a lot against low attacks to flank, mostly as second-intention in a simultaneous situation.

I will use either seconde or tierce against a head feint, flank cut. But basically, if you're going to take a quinte, you need to wait as long as you can and make sure you get the parry. Most people are trained very well to cut flank or chest when they see a 5 parry, and it is very hard to move quickly enough to tierce or quarte from quinte.

MR

[Tiwaz]

A high seconde is quite useful against a head-flank attack it leave's you in a good posistion to do a fast beat parry cut to cheek.

[Alain]

When I parry 5 in sabre, should my guard point up or forward? I was originally taught to point it forward, but my coach says that it is weak if I don't point it up. I see his point-- pointing it forward means they can smash the blade down... so the second way is better, right?

Also, if they feint 5, I make my parry, and they attack in 3, should I bring my arm down to parry 3 or use 2? It seems faster to just parry 2 but that might be because I've been doing that for a while.

I'm not a sabreur, but...

I was taught to parry quinte with the point up. In addition to the reasons already given above, it will allow your opponents blade to slide down your own after contact is made; whereas a reasonably strong attack will power through a flat parry.

As for the parry of seconde - I'd go for seconde because it looks cool. Or, you could always just move out of the way

[Prince Twilight]

As a side question, do you guys prefer to lower the tip before parrying 5 to make sure you get under the opponent's blade (in a sweeping motion) or just move the blade into place?

[fencergal33]

Definitely the sweeping motion. It helps to insure you parry the blade if the person is short or makes a low head cut that actually lands about chest level.

To throw in my 2 cents on the other questions in this thread...

1) Point up, not down. You should always parry with your thumb facing the oncoming blade. Point forward is a good way to get not only a ton of mal parrys, but a nice broken wrist too if the person you are fencing swings hard enough.

2) I would definitely advocate going from 5 to 2 if you have that kind of skill. Personally, my secondary triangle is pretty weak in saber, so my gut reaction is usually 3. However, I think 2 is much quicker, and if you're doing it right, just as strong as 3.

[Allen Evans]

Definitely the sweeping motion. It helps to insure you parry the blade if the person is short or makes a low head cut that actually lands about chest level.

The sweeping motion to make the parry five is a time-honored method of making a head parry. It's advantage is that it DOES fully sweep the line the cut may be coming it, but it suffers from being very slow. The parry is "chasing" the cut, rather than moving out to meet it.

Wang Yung (bronze medalist in Veteran 50 saber at the Vet World Championships) demonstrated to me one afternoon that he could easily beat this parry, but could not "speed through" the parry that was made by simply lifting and rotating the hand.

[oso97]

Both the "sweeping motion" and the "fast transition" parry 5 are useful (good lord, the terminology that we come up with here at times!) depending on the particular circumstance.

When I was learning sabre, my maitre drilled me endlessly on a drill involving a stopcut to the outside of the wrist, with a moulinet into parry 5. Yea, its slower than a direct 3-5 transition, but again, not entirely without use. A use that you'll see of that at the highest levels of sabre is to repeatedly feint the stop cut in a whirling over and over motion. Or fient the stopcut, and go for the beat attack. Theres a lot of interesting things you can do with it as a second intention.

Its also useful as an "emergency" parry, when you're well and truely caught, but there is a slight chance that you can pick up their blade.

But the standard way the parry5 is being taught and utlized today is as a direct transition from 3.

[Purple Fencer]

For myself, going from 5 to 2 is hard on my wrist...and I find riposting from a true 2 inaccurate at best.

Easier for me to go to 3 and riposte from there.


Now...if you're getting a low line attack from underneath (like you're taller than your oppoent and he's going from the underside of your arm), you don't even have to to a true 2...do a modified version with the blade horizintal just below your waist...the your opponent's arm is right there.

[Inquartata]

The problem with the riposte from seconde these days is the same as that with making any riposte: with the new timing, the opponent only has to leave his blade outstretched and wave it at you and more than half the time he'll luck in a remise or stop that will lock you out.

I am beginning to find it more useful to riposte with a bind, in order to keep control of that blade.

But in answer to the questions, I'm another vote for knuckle bow of the guard up, point slightly inclined up, and using seconde instead of tierce.

NB Seconde is very useful against left-handers who like to try to cut to the weapon arm or flank. I use it quite a bit.

[Alain]

I am beginning to find it more useful to riposte with a bind, in order to keep control of that blade.

Wow, cool. Sorry for appearing clueless, but how'd you do one of them, then? Could you give any examples please, o' wise one? Thanks

[Welted 24/7]

I am beginning to find it more useful to riposte with a bind, in order to keep control of that blade.

Somebody's been spending too much time in the Epeeists Only thread...I fear he's been infected.