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sophia*alexis · 07-21-2005, 04:54 AM

Can someone tell me what's a redouble & appel in sabre?

Tiwaz · 07-21-2005, 07:33 AM

Appel is a preperation made by striking the floor with the ball of your foot

Redouble is a renewal of an attack in a different line i.e in sabre it could be an attack to head which is parried and the reposte is delayed followed by a redouble to wrist. note if your opponent repostes straight away he has right of way.

radtad82 · 07-21-2005, 11:49 AM

Is an appel similar to a balestra? In a balestra you do the same action, striking the floor with the ball of your foot, but it's a "jump", so both feet strike the ground at the same time. Tough to describe, but easy to recognize.
Or is an appel more like a tap, with just one foot?
Redouble is commonly used to refer to a lunge, right? Where you lunge, and then "redouble", meaning lunge again, without recovering first.

GGK · 07-21-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radtad82

Or is an appel more like a tap, with just one foot?

That's it.
A redouble is a renewal of the attack with footwork, e.g. lunge, forward recovery, lunge.

mrbiggs · 07-21-2005, 02:19 PM

I thought a redouble was an obsolete fencing move in which two lunges were linked together?

HDG · 07-21-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I thought a redouble was an obsolete fencing move in which two lunges were linked together?

Isn't that just a double lunge?

t.8.d.2
Redoublement
"A new action, either simple or compound, made againstan opponent who has parried without riposting or who has merely avoided the first action by retreating or displacing the target."

Tiwaz · 07-21-2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDG

Isn't that just a double lunge?

t.8.d.2
Redoublement
"A new action, either simple or compound, made againstan opponent who has parried without riposting or who has merely avoided the first action by retreating or displacing the target."

Er isn't that a reprise?

kalivor · 07-21-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiwaz

Er isn't that a reprise?

No, a reprise specifically requires a return to the en garde position.

pkt · 07-21-2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophia*alexis

Can someone tell me what's a redouble & appel in sabre?

"Redoublement" and "reprise" are clearly explained in the FIE Rules for competition.

A sabre appel is different from a foil appel but the intent and functions are the same.
A sabre appel is done with the weight of the body onthe front foot while the foil one is done with the weight on the rear foot.
Appels are similar to a body feints. See what Bruce Lee did.

PK

HDG · 07-21-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiwaz

Er isn't that a reprise?

t.8.d.3
The reprise of the attack

"A new attack executed immediately after a return to the on-guard position"

I've been studying for the ref's exam...

peet · 07-21-2005, 05:26 PM

In my experience, the words Remise, Reprise, and Redouble are used to mean different things by different people.

Some people will tell you one thing, others will tell you exactly the opposite. Believe what's in the rulebook if you like, believe what your instructor tells you, or believe whatever you like, as long as the person you're talking to understands what you mean.

Where I come from they say:
Remise: A continuation of a failed attack in the same line as the original.
Reprise: A continuation of a failed attack in a different line as the original.
Redouble: A continuation of a failed attack after a return to guard (usually a forward recovery).

-p

KD5MDK · 07-21-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

A sabre appel is different from a foil appel but the intent and functions are the same.
A sabre appel is done with the weight of the body onthe front foot while the foil one is done with the weight on the rear foot.

I've never heard that before.

KD5MDK · 07-21-2005, 05:30 PM

I would agree with peet's definitions (which match the rulebook, I believe) with the caveat that many people are lazy and call anything after a failed attack a remise, even if it was actually a redoublement.

HDG · 07-21-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I would agree with peet's definitions (which match the rulebook, I believe) with the caveat that many people are lazy and call anything after a failed attack a remise, even if it was actually a redoublement.

I've also noticed people avoiding the terms altogether and just using the blanket term "continuation". I try very hard not to fall into this trap, but I confess to being guilty of it sometimes...

KD5MDK · 07-21-2005, 07:50 PM

To be fair, it's not an incredibly important distinction. Calling it correctly indicates that the referee did clearly see what happened, but whatever it is, if it's a fencing action starting with re-, it has dead last priority anyhow.

Heh. I can just see it:

Quote:

Ref:
Simultaneous attacks. Both miss.
Left redoubles, Right Reprises at the same time.
Redouble comes first in the rule book, so Left Touch.

annacattiva · 07-21-2005, 09:29 PM

The appel is just the front foot moving to strike the floor. Depending on whom you talk to, it's anywhere from just trying really hard to make a loud noise with your front foot while staying in place to making a soft half-advance (just front foot of advance). The balestra is a foward jump-lunge. Or just the forward jump part depending again on who's defining it.

Tiwaz · 07-22-2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalivor

No, a reprise specifically requires a return to the en garde position.

woops miss read the rule.

downunder · 07-22-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Calling it correctly indicates that the referee did clearly see what happened,

correct calling is just remise. Don't use any other terms unless you need to explain the phrase further to the fencers or you are coaching them or something else. If you are there to referee properly, you use remise as a blanket term.

I understand this may be different if you are sitting for your rules exam.

Point_Left · 07-22-2005, 11:50 AM

redouble: A move that a fencer does when the price of fencing gear goes up again (Related to "double take")
appel: The proper way to introduce oneself to a French fencing coach. "Je m'appel..."

The other definitions are more correct. I like these better, though.

Insipiens · 07-22-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

correct calling is just remise. Don't use any other terms unless you need to explain the phrase further to the fencers or you are coaching them or something else. If you are there to referee properly, you use remise as a blanket term.

I understand this may be different if you are sitting for your rules exam.

Although of course the FIE rules allow for the ref explaining actions with remise and redouble as evidenced by the remark underneath the pictures of the signal explaining their is no signal for remise, riposte or redouble [t.42].