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Tai Wilson · 07-19-2005, 07:55 PM

...You fence with two blades? I know what it's called, I'm just not sure about the spelling. It's Floor-In-Teen sounding.

KD5MDK · 07-19-2005, 08:06 PM

Florentine

haroldbuck · 07-19-2005, 09:20 PM

In the USFA, I think they call it "Black Card."

CvilleFencer · 07-19-2005, 10:33 PM

It is also refered to as fencing with a case, as in a case or pair of matched swords, one for left and one for right. I am not sure why it got stuck with the name florentine since nothing I have come across would indicate it was particularly popular there. Maybe it was just a slang term that poped up at the time like the "French Kiss", "Japanese Inspection", ect.

Sciurus-Rex · 07-19-2005, 11:52 PM

It's pronounced "luxury yacht."

Aeric · 07-20-2005, 12:20 AM

It's also called foolish.

CvilleFencer · 07-20-2005, 01:05 AM

Play nice kiddies. Fencing with a case is both fun and perfectly acceptable for historic, stage and erma/sca type fencing. It also happens to be a good deal of fun and very techincally demanding. It is harder than you would think not getting your blades tangled up as you try to both parry and attack. Remember, this is not sportfencing.net, it is just plain ol' fencing.net as in for all things fencing. Even for fans of (shudder wretch curse spit) Evangilista and his fencing philosophy...

VERITAS · 07-20-2005, 01:09 AM

I gather that in the SCA it is indeed known as 'florentine'. I have not seen the term used in other contexts - it may very well be just their name for it.

Two swords may be referred to as a 'brace of swords'. It is difficult and dangerous, if you don't know what you are doing you will pose a greater threat to yourself than to your opponent.
In theory you would learn one-sword fencing in each hand, train in transitions from one hand forward to the other and pick up a few neat tricks and tactics.

I believe this was done with rapier and smallsword, not so much with sabre, or any large cutting weapon.

Tiwaz · 07-20-2005, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tai Wilson

...You fence with two blades? I know what it's called, I'm just not sure about the spelling. It's Floor-In-Teen sounding.

Ah my party trick. I did a Sabre lesson with two kids at the same time and used two sabres.

swordwench · 07-20-2005, 10:22 AM

In the SCA (at least in the East Kingdom), they refer to it as either "case" (as in case - meaning pair - of rapier) or Assassin's Form. I asked about that term last year at rapier academy (don't laugh), and was told that the name came about because of something in the laws that forbade anyone from carrying two rapiers. There was no need for a person to carry two, unless the person was an assassin, and likely to go around killing people. I wish I could remember the source, as it was interesting.

It's also quite fun to watch. It's like a finely choreographed dance when two skilled case opponents face each other. The blades flash like scissors, and it's breathtaking. And being the SCA, they're well-padded and don't hit hard.

I wouldn't recommend it for sport fencing.

VELISARIOS · 07-20-2005, 10:30 AM

Two weapon style.
But if you fence with epee just call it two epee style...lol

Duellist USA · 07-20-2005, 10:54 AM

Its called fun.....*g* although when the better half got me to put down two blades and pick up one...I did have an issue parrying with the hand that use to have a blade in it...designed to parry blades...lol...took a few hits to the back hand to fix that issue though....

It is fun to watch beginning fencers when I bring it my custom blades (blantant plug for one of the best forges http://www.atar.com ) and pull them out to show them where fencing originated from. We had such intrest we actually hired someone to teach stage combat at the salle...

Rick Shellhouse

Inquartata · 07-20-2005, 02:05 PM

It's generally called 'case' in SCA rapier and 'Florentine' in heavy-armored fighting ( with rattan 'swords' ). The latter traces back to a mistranslation of a phrase in a single historical document, 'a Fiorentino' or something like that. Actually it had nothing to do with fencing or swords, but the term was seized upon by SCAdians and is now apparently impossible to uproot.

Somtimes it's called "fencing double" as well. I have been in the SCA for, well, never mind how long, but quite a long time, and have never heard of "assassin form". That may be a phrase prevalent in a certain kingdom or region, a local thing...

Schiavona · 07-20-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordwench

It's also quite fun to watch. It's like a finely choreographed dance when two skilled case opponents face each other. The blades flash like scissors, and it's breathtaking. And being the SCA, they're well-padded and don't hit hard.

I wouldn't recommend it for sport fencing.

Of course I wouldn't know anything about this firsthand, but it's easy to splice two body cords together and fence with two epees each.

Frank Pratt · 07-20-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiwaz

Ah my party trick. I did a Sabre lesson with two kids at the same time and used two sabres.

Yeah, I've seen fencing coaches pull this trick too. Cuts the time needed for lessons in half!

Inquartata · 07-20-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schiavona

Of course I wouldn't know anything about this firsthand, but it's easy to splice two body cords together and fence with two epees each.

Bah! The prospect of touching ONE epee is sufficiently off-putting, thank you VERY much!

swordwench · 07-20-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Somtimes it's called "fencing double" as well. I have been in the SCA for, well, never mind how long, but quite a long time, and have never heard of "assassin form". That may be a phrase prevalent in a certain kingdom or region, a local thing...

Like I said, we use it in the East Kingdom. (Inq, you sly dog, you never mentioned you were a scadian! Did you hang out in Marion Zimmer Bradley's basement?

) The name of the class at Rapier Academy was "Assassin's Form." Somewhere in this sty I know I still have the hand-out from the class, and if I ever find it, I'll check for the source.

Christopher J Umbs · 07-20-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordwench

Like I said, we use it in the East Kingdom. (Inq, you sly dog, you never mentioned you were a scadian! Did you hang out in Marion Zimmer Bradley's basement?

) The name of the class at Rapier Academy was "Assassin's Form." Somewhere in this sty I know I still have the hand-out from the class, and if I ever find it, I'll check for the source.

I think I vaguely recall some mention in a text that 2 rapiers were sometimes used by unskilled assassians who would jump out from an alley with both blades. Silly stuff really, when you consider how much better rapier and dagger are (don't keep both those rapiers in the same plane of geometry, kids...). Some pre-rapier authors (Agrippa, DiGrassi, etc..) have sections for two swords, but you're talking shorter blades here. But yes, see if you can find out who's spurting what nonsense nowdays.

Schiavona · 07-20-2005, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Bah! The prospect of touching ONE epee is sufficiently off-putting, thank you VERY much!

I'm sure if one really wanted to crawl through the sewers you could splice two weapon ends on a single foil or *shudder* sabre body cord and fight both weapons. Don't tell Roche! He might think it telegenitic.