Studying for the ref test

[DHCJr]

There are so many of them and most of them seem to envolve the Pentathalon. Joe Byrnes told me about them fileing down their body cord plugs and hold them in place and if the other fencer got the touch, they would lift the point and let the body cord fall out. Now Security devices. Dan talked about the switches in the handle. No covering on handle. Staying at the edge of the piste and hitting the side. This was done mostly on raised platforms where the referee could not see as well where the fencers were. Now the metal piste must extend over the whole platform.

The only one I know for Foil was the Soviet parry. Place your handle against your lame'. Not anti-fraud.

[yeoldearmourer]

A few years ago I was watching a bout my wife was referee and a light went off and there was no clear hit at the time since I was not a official armourer I went and got Chris Green and explain to him the problem was with the epee tip. It was new german epee tip which at the time they had change vendor that was chrome there barrels causing flakes of mental to come off shorted out the contacts. I had just discovery the problem that morning cleaning a tip. Chris removed the tip and sure enough metal flakes fell on the table. i called Dan Dechain about it and few weeks later the same problem showed up at a FIE world cup Dan removed the tip and the same thing happen.

Or Course I remenber one NAC were they were test referees with fencers who didn't move up as vol for the referees to get there patrical. Geroge K ask me and Ted LI to rig a switch in one of my wife epee to go off where she could score at any distences or angle. You be suprise how many touch she was awarded inclued one that was three above the other fencer head that was funning to watch. Geroge K kept said there is something really wrong on this strip and the referee never caught until it got to point we had to showed them the switch.

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Does everybody get a Soviet cheating story at their seminar? Mine was that Soviet fencers would use their back hand to yank off the lame line during their lunge, which led to the rules about the clip must be on the weapon side of the lame and soldered on.

Yeah, and not just the refs. Speaking of "Russian epee switches," I heard one armorurer tell a story about a switch that was very ingeniously implanted in an epee. There was a blade wire running from the socket to the groove as usual, but there was a second wire imbedded inside the blade that ran hidden from the socket, though a switch, and to the tip. The perfectly seamless (and thus invisible) switch on the grip was activated by a light tap with a finger (the same principle used in lamps that you can turn on/off by touching the frame.) This rig was impossible to detect, until, of course, a blade broke. The referee did not notice the extra wire in the end of the severed blade; he just confiscated the weapon and put it aside. The guy's teammate, however, grabbed the broken weapon and made a run for it. They stopped him and the got weapon before he made it out. His suspicious "snatch and grab" maneuver made the referees and armorurers curious, so they took a really good look at that weapon. As the story goes, they enlisted the help of an x-ray machine at a local hospital to back up the black card. As I understand it, this led to the FIE running all weapons though an x-ray before major competitions, though I have never heard of this being done in recent years.

Of course, the most disturbing part of this story is that this you not a “do-it-yourself” project. The conclusion was that the wire could only have been implanted inside the blade when the it was forged at the factory. Talk about an “inside job!”

I have only heard this amazing story once before (several years ago,) so something tells me it might be urban legend, at least in part. Has anyone else heard it?

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by Agent_V

That would most likely be Jon Moss giving the seminar (whom I heard that exact story from), and the country would be the then Soviet Union (who else during that time?). I am unsure as to whether the turning back rule was instituted for all weapons at the same time, but in the story the weapon was clearly (and obviously) epee.

Alexander

Actually, it wasn't, though Mr. Moss was nice enough to pass me on my pratical exam at that same NAC. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure it was Ralph Zinnerman.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

Yeah, and not just the refs. Speaking of "Russian epee switches," I heard one armorurer tell a story about a switch that was very ingeniously implanted in an epee. There was a blade wire running from the socket to the groove as usual, but there was a second wire imbedded inside the blade that ran hidden from the socket, though a switch, and to the tip. The perfectly seamless (and thus invisible) switch on the grip was activated by a light tap with a finger (the same principle used in lamps that you can turn on/off by touching the frame.) This rig was impossible to detect, until, of course, a blade broke. The referee did not notice the extra wire in the end of the severed blade; he just confiscated the weapon and put it aside. The guy's teammate, however, grabbed the broken weapon and made a run for it. They stopped him and the got weapon before he made it out. His suspicious "snatch and grab" maneuver made the referees and armorurers curious, so they took a really good look at that weapon. As the story goes, they enlisted the help of an x-ray machine at a local hospital to back up the black card. As I understand it, this led to the FIE running all weapons though an x-ray before major competitions, though I have never heard of this being done in recent years.

Of course, the most disturbing part of this story is that this you not a “do-it-yourself” project. The conclusion was that the wire could only have been implanted inside the blade when the it was forged at the factory. Talk about an “inside job!”

I have only heard this amazing story once before (several years ago,) so something tells me it might be urban legend, at least in part. Has anyone else heard it?

I've heard it, but i heard a different version. I heard it was a Soviet pentathelete fencer who, when testing, tested so that it went off without being depressed (the point being that he was being forced to cheat, and he was trying to get the weapon confiscated, at least that was the theory). When he was asked to switch weapons, his teammate then took his weapon and ran....and almost made it out the door. At least that's the story I heard.

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

I've heard it, but i heard a different version. I heard it was a Soviet pentathelete fencer who, when testing, tested so that it went off without being depressed (the point being that he was being forced to cheat, and he was trying to get the weapon confiscated, at least that was the theory). When he was asked to switch weapons, his teammate then took his weapon and ran....and almost made it out the door. At least that's the story I heard.

I've head that one too. Perhaps they are different versions of the same incident.

[DHCJr]

The weapons are not X-rayed which wouldn't have shown much as the blades are metal and the guard, etc. What they use is actually like a magnatometer which is used to find cracks in the blade.

The incident with the pentatlete was the '76 games and the blade never broke. Yes, it couldn't be detected visually, but it could be detected the same way the person received the touch by grabbing the handle and squeezing the little finger.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I thought that turning your back is cardable in every weapon, and it was turning the shoulder that was only foil-specific?

Bah, that's what I get for skimming the posts rather than reading carefully (one problem with limited computer time while at Coaches College (limited in that I spend less time on them, they're available 24/7)).

Sorry for the misinformation.

-B :)