Studying for the ref test

[KShan5[PrFC]]

sure, laminate some construction paper, or by some from a sporting store (soccer cards), the only problem being msot soccer sets don't come with a black card. I just bought mine at nationals, 3 cards, one dollar, and they're nice ones too. It's up to you, you can also be creative (i.e. floppy disks).

[nyacfencing]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

Lastly, if you’re taking the epee section, don’t assume that the written or practical tests are going to be easy, even if you think that epee is easier to direct that foil or sabre (and I don’t say this only because I filed the "5" epee written the first time around… ). Some of the questions (e.g. ones regarding when to annul a touch for fencer A and/or B when you have two lights and one or more fencers with one or more feet off the strip) can be more confusing than any right of way question. I can’t personally compare the tests since I never sought a rating in foil or sabre, but I have heard several other rated referees comment that the written epee questions were even harder than the foil and sabre sections. Given the slim pass/fail margain, take nothing for granted.

It has always been interesting to me that many view epee as easier to direct than foil or saber. The truth is that epee is the hardest to direct because, when things go wrong, they go very wrong.

In foil and saber, the fencers understand that they have to live with whatever the director says the action was. Sure, they may argue or try to intimidate, but at the end of the day they are used to getting screwed a few touches a bout and can generally live with it. If in a 15-14 bout the director made 27 good calls, and 2 bad ones, as long as they weren't critical bout-ending touches, the fencers will be forgiving.

Epeeists do not think this way. Because it is so infrequent that a director even needs to make a call in epee, and because when they do it is usually the result of some extremely close or unusual action, it is critical that the call be correct. Even when they make the correct call, because of the situation it is almost definite that the fencers will argue relentlessly. This is because a director cannot make any "good" calls in epee, there are just calls (dictated by the lights), and all a director can do is make a bad call. In that same 15-14 bout, the director would have made 0 good calls (the 27 non-confrontational touches are not attributed to them) and 2 bad calls, and the losing fencer will haunt them with it for months.

[Fencergrl]

Something happened in practice that I was curious how it would be called in a tournament... I fence epee.

My opponent went for a toe hit just as I lunged, lifting my foot. Her blade went under my foot and as I completed my lunge I stepped on the first 6-10" of her blade.

I made my touch and since we weren't on a grounded piste, both lights went off.

I have no idea if my foot even touched her tip, the light could have went off as her blade hit the floor (if you think about the angle this is possible).

What would be the call on this?

[yeoldearmourer]

If you had a good epee referee you would have rec the touch as you hit target and you opperet hit the floor. By the way their is some armoy rules and just not deaing with weight and shims if my son can pass it wirth studing for it then you can too. Oh excause me we do talk alot about the rules in the family with A WIFE AND DAUGHTER that referee alot of NAC and even I have rateings in all 3 weapons so if a armourer can do so can you.

[oiuyt]

FencerGrl: If your opponent's touch was made on the floor then it's thrown out, leaving only your light/touch. If it was made on your foot then both touches count.

If there is doubt about which of the two above situations ocurred (rather, if your touch was definitely good and your opponent's touch is doubtful) then you, as the scorer of the definite touch, have the option to either have both touches awarded or both touches annulled.

-B :)

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by HDG

Relatedly, I'm trying to learn all of the hand signals. Any suggestions (besides the obvious) on how to do so? Some are intuitive, others seem like they will only come from rote memorization.

The best way to practice the hand signals is in Epee where they don't mean diddly squat (how many d's in diddly?). Point down for the person who started the action, point in the direction of the fencer who was scored against and then point to God on the side of the fencer whose score will increase by one. Since it is Epee no one cares if you totally mush it up, the pressure is off. As you continue to do it, it will require less of your attention. Then when you get to the right of way weapons where it is important, it will come more easily and you will be less likely to cause the fencers to doubt that you know diddly about what you are doing.

All of the weapons are equally hard to referee. But Epee is the hardest to referee perfectly. The old saying is 99 minutes of utter boredom and 1 minute of sheer terror. I have had the fencer who was ahead by 4-3 running backwards as fast as he could and scoring while only his toes were still on the strip and the clock showed 0.1 seconds remaining in the bout. And the guy watching at the end of the strip in position to see where the fencer's foot was and when the light came on said I got it right.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by mtarascio

I'd suggest you download a copy of the referee study guide. This is where the questions on the test are. From there you can use the rule book more efficiently.

I take each question and then find the rule number, section, paragraph and sentence which applies and write it in the margin of the study guide. Keep this and when you wish to reexamine the question, you don't have to start hunting again. And I agree, you will find some questions which really could be answered in different ways.

[mollusk]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

ok, also, where can I buy a set of cards? Can I produce my own set at home?

This is what I use. Go to Lowes or Home Depot and visit the area where they sell countertops. There should be a large rack of laminate samples. I use Wilsonart 1595-60 Black (black), D307-60 Hollyberry (red), and D341-60 Marigold (yellow).

[yeoldearmourer]

I sell Ref cards at NAC that are lamanated and desigh fi inside the pockrtd 3.00 aaset 208 587 4164

[Insipiens]

Originally Posted by mtarascio

I'd suggest you download a copy of the referee study guide. This is where the questions on the test are. From there you can use the rule book more efficiently.

Anybody have a link to this?

[Frank Pratt]

Yeah, it's available here.

[Insipiens]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

Yeah, it's available here.

Thanks.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

The best way to practice the hand signals is in Epee where they don't mean diddly squat (how many d's in diddly?). Point down for the person who started the action, point in the direction of the fencer who was scored against and then point to God on the side of the fencer whose score will increase by one. Since it is Epee no one cares if you totally mush it up, the pressure is off. As you continue to do it, it will require less of your attention. Then when you get to the right of way weapons where it is important, it will come more easily and you will be less likely to cause the fencers to doubt that you know diddly about what you are doing.

That's not exactly right. If you're doing hand signals in epee, you should not "point down" to show where the attack was initiated. You should only show where the touch was scored and whose point it is. The "attack" hand signal is only used in ROW weapons, because that's the only place it matters.

[fluidfencer]

I guess I can add this now that all the details have been worked out.

I'm sure we aren't the first to do this, but our club is working with the Chattanooga club and the FOC on a two-part training program. Our club will host the clinic (including some higher level stuff for experienced referees) on September 10-11, with training provided by Jeff Bukantz, and the written test given on Sunday.

Then Chattanooga (where our young friend D+F+P=Hadouken! trains) will host a tournament on October 22-23 to give the practical portion of the test, with Bill Oliver (and maybe others).

Other areas of the country might have lots of referees, but programs like this are having a huge impact in the Southeast (I know South and North Carolina have held a number of clinics as well). I think we added 7 rated referees last year and this year should result in significantly more than that.

With all the frustrations involved in developing a fencing program, the FOC has been a real asset.

[fencerbill]

That's not exactly right. If you're doing hand signals in epee, you should not "point down" to show where the attack was initiated. You should only show where the touch was scored and whose point it is. The "attack" hand signal is only used in ROW weapons, because that's the only place it matters.

That is exactly my point. It doesn't mean anything. So no one cares if you screw it up. The only thing that matters in Epee is the raised hand to signal touch awarded. So consider it free practice. Believe me, it will help you to be more comfortable when you come to the right of way weapons.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

That is exactly my point. It doesn't mean anything. So no one cares if you screw it up. The only thing that matters in Epee is the raised hand to signal touch awarded. So consider it free practice. Believe me, it will help you to be more comfortable when you come to the right of way weapons.

That's great, except for the part where one of the major reasons for implementing the hand signals, in the first place, was to standardize the appearance of referees...

Indicating the attack in EPEE is similar to inserting the work like several times into every sentence that comes out of your mouth. Will people still understand you? Yes, but they will think you're an idiot.

[yeoldearmourer]

If anyone of you get the oppuarity to watch my daughter Adelia referee for and young lady at the the age of 15 she ace three of the four part of the written test and she used hand singal almost exculsive without saying a word. She is rated a4 in all 3 weapons and got her 5 in epee at her first NAC and got her5 rated in foil at Reno and when she did her practial in Reno she also got her 5 the first time she took her partical .and the hand singal and controlled of the strip make her a very go referee. SHe got her 5 infoil at reno and sabre as well

[Mr Epee]

A. Adelia is a surprisingly good referee.

B. I'm starting to really enjoy yeolde's posts, because he usually knows what he's talking about, and his writing style sort of works like a brand... It's immediately recognizable, and it makes you slow down and pay attention to what he's saying.

Funny how that works.

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

If anyone of you get the oppuarity to watch my daughter Adelia referee for and young lady at the the age of 15 she ace three of the four part of the written test and she used hand singal almost exculsive without saying a word. She is rated a4 in all 3 weapons and got her 5 in epee at her first NAC and got her5 rated in foil at Reno and when she did her practial in Reno she also got her 5 the first time she took her partical .and the hand singal and controlled of the strip make her a very go referee. SHe got her 5 infoil at reno and sabre as well

Nice! A "4" in 3 weapons before learning how to drive?! Is that a record?

[Peach]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Indicating the attack in EPEE is similar to inserting the work like several times into every sentence that comes out of your mouth. Will people still understand you? Yes, but they will think you're an idiot.

Yeah, but epeeists already think e