M.Roch "speaks" on Escrime Magazine, June 2, 2005

[gladius]

From the reactions of many it is evident that this article by M. Roch on Escrime Magazine (June 2, 2005) has not been given the attention it deserves. You may disagree with him, but he "told" you before what he was going to do ... and he'll do it for three main reasons

1. He has the 'democratic' majority of the 115 FIE votes in the congress and the Executive Committee is with him also (check who is who)

2. The elite athletes, in particular those who are semi-pro and for whom fencing pays them instead of the other way around, are not going to revolt. They'll adapt or at the limit switch to epee (read interview with Valentina Vezzali -- all of you potential switcheroos may have illustrious company)

3. He has no coherent and well organized opposition, just a bunch of 'nobodies' complaining in the nosebleed bleachers.

This is my English translation of Roch's article. Read on and you'll know what to expect in the short term.


The 2005 congress which will meet in Doha is particularly important because it will decide the direction of our sport until the next Olympic Games. Athens was a success and obviously we could be happy to rest on our laurels as we've done, unfortunately, for so many years. This would be a dangerous thing to do since we all must understand that all sports compete with each other; after each Olympic Games we'll be under the scrutiny of the IOC and only the sports which can gather more than 50% of the votes will continue to be part of the Olympic Games. It's therefore necessary to perform a self criticism and to consider both the feedback from the media and from the IOC.

This doesn't mean that we have to "change" for the sake of "changing." We must have logical and valid reasons [to do so]. You've all received a certain number of proposals which we will submit for your consideration at the next congress. Some of the proposals answer worries which we consider essential and others to feelings/desires which may not require an immediate follow up.

Which are the problems facing us which demand a rapid solution? The first one is the "readability" [understanding] by the media and the public. The second is close to the first one, but affects more specifically the refereeing. Lastly, in a larger sense we must adapt our sport to its environment. Given these needs, the proposed modifications are the result of a serious technical study by the SEMI commission and our international technical director. We also paid attention to another point: the cost of the change and the reduction of costs for the future.

We are about to conclude a part of the tests concerning foil. It seems that the suggested modifications are helpful to the image of this weapon and are giving back to it the "look" which it should never have lost.

The other modifications which should have been submitted to the congress will be put again on the agenda. The first to facilitate the understanding by the public, the others to make refereeing more objective. Whether we want it or no, a sport cannot survive without spectators. A popular sport benefits from the support by the media and because of it it attracts sponsors. This applies to our championships but also to the Olympic Games. This is why in the report of the various sports the Olympic Committee wanted to find out what the revenues of each international federation were outside those related to the Olympic Games. It has also considered the time of TV exposure which benefits a sport during a whole year.

The proposals which we put forward relating to the white light and the new target surface are based on these absolute requirements which are made on us to improve the understanding of our sport. Furthermore, it's evident that the suppression of the white light will allow the use of the wireless system which would give to our sport a more modern look and reduce costs by eliminating the metallic piste. This can help the sport as a recreational activity in the developing countries.

Refereeing is the other equation which we must resolve. There are many sports which have adopted the video because it's the only logical solution to get an objective judgment. The use of video by some sports close to ours, like wrestling, show that it is not so difficult to implement as some would think.

To reassure all those who may believe that all this is the result of a decision by the Executive Committee, I'd like to remind you that this decision was taken before I became president, when I was treasurer/secretary and president of the promotion commission. These changes are essential for the future of our discipline because in the evaluation of the of the Olympic sports the quality of the refereeing is an fundamental factor.

Naturally, there are other proposals which are put forward on this subject which attempt to move the clock backwards. How many times have we lost because of this conservative attitude? How many times have people told me that it won't "work" and how many times did we make proposals to get in a forward gear in our sport? It's not easy to move things and obviously, it's much easier for a president to "manage the crisis"... We are not popular when we want to change but at least we have the satisfaction to have worked for the future.

I'd like to remind you the fiery words of our dean Bâtonnier Bondoux. I asked him to give a speech for our 80th anniversary. In his usual flowery rhetoric in which he excelled he spoke about the presidents of the FIE and at a certain point he said "Ah, he was a great president!" I then asked him "But this president what did he do to become a great president?" Promptly he answered me "Nothing, he did absolutely nothing and this is why he was a great president."

[DHCJr]

How will any of this eliminate the metalic piste? Maybe for Foil and Sabre, but what about Epee?

[Feraud]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

How will any of this eliminate the metalic piste? Maybe for Foil and Sabre, but what about Epee?

If fencing wasn't conducted on some sort of prefabricated piste, what would it be fenced on at large competitions? carpeting?

[edew]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

How will any of this eliminate the metalic piste? Maybe for Foil and Sabre, but what about Epee?

In order to eliminate the possible "off-target" in epee, I think hizzoner is going to declare that hits anywhere will be considered on target. It's up to the fencers to keep the opponent's blade off the ground, or to somehow make a hit before the opponent does. Furthermore, the lock-out time will drop from 1/25th of a second to 0.00001 seconds.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Feraud

If fencing wasn't conducted on some sort of prefabricated piste, what would it be fenced on at large competitions? carpeting?

Brightly colored translucent plexiglass flooring, lit from below by flashing strobes. Or possibly a narrow wooden beam across a long firepit.

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by edew

In order to eliminate the possible "off-target" in epee, I think hizzoner is going to declare that hits anywhere will be considered on target. It's up to the fencers to keep the opponent's blade off the ground, or to somehow make a hit before the opponent does. Furthermore, the lock-out time will drop from 1/25th of a second to 0.00001 seconds.

No, epeeists will have to wear full-body lame, including shoes and socks.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by sabreur

No, epeeists will have to wear full-body lame, including shoes and socks.

...................

[Wizardly]

Originally Posted by edew

In order to eliminate the possible "off-target" in epee, I think hizzoner is going to declare that hits anywhere will be considered on target. It's up to the fencers to keep the opponent's blade off the ground

OMG I almost pissed myself laughing so hard. ::wipes tear from eye::
"It's up to the fencer to [make sure the opponent actually hits them]...bwahahahaha! It's still funny every time I say it!

Call me crazy (I dare you), but wont we need floor judges for every epee bout if we eliminate the metal strip? Aren't we try to reduce the need for referee opinion? I think it is more likely that they will just keep the metal strip for epee only. Unless they have some other means of auto-differentiating fencer from rest-of-world nobody's mentioned. (The spiteful side of me really likes the full-body lame idea though).

::snickers:: "...ANYWHERE will be considered on-target"...ROFL. The future of epee fencing: hanging from a wire five feet above the ground so that you can ONLY hit the oppononent!

[JEC]

Epee will become the elite sport.... the only weapon that requires a "costly" metallic piste.

[Inquartata]

Which each epeeist will be required to provide on his own. Or at least half of it. ( Like the wireless apparatus and t-sirt for sabre. )

[Feraud]

Originally Posted by JEC

Epee will become the elite sport.... the only weapon that requires a "costly" metallic piste.

And the costly metallic full-body lame!

[Feraud]

Originally Posted by sabreur

No, epeeists will have to wear full-body lame, including shoes and socks.

They can’t be serious?
Can you imagine the armorers having to check the full-body lame before the competition?
Long lines of epee fencers standing there with armfuls of conductive socks, shoes gloves… with conductive fingers, jackets, masks, knickers….

[JEC]

Originally Posted by Feraud

And the costly metallic full-body lame!

No, it will be EITHER the metallic piste or the full-body lame.

[schlager7]

Originally Posted by JEC

Epee will become the elite sport.... the only weapon that requires a "costly" metallic piste.

As I recall, for a time, among smaller, poorer clubs in the 1970s/1980s, sabre was popular in part because there was not costly electric apparatus involved (as was the case with foil and epee). It was the CHEAPER weapon to fence. Then it went electric and became the most expensive.

Currently, epee is the least expensive weapon with which to trick out fencers for competition. It can't last. It's epee's turn to be the pricey alternative.

They'll do it with either body stocking lame or Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon wires...

Probably body-lames...

There'd always be one epeeiste complaining to his ref and crying out, "It was a wire hit!"

[LUDICROUS]

Keep the piste, full body lames would be mentally retarded. If they did that, I'd probably quit fencing Would be way too much money, and by then I would have given up on foil (assuming these retarded new changes come into effect) and switched to epee.. And I'm not gonna do sabre.

What the hell is wrong with a piste anyway? Keep fencing the way it is, lose Roche, FORGET the olympics and keep the sport the way it is.

EDIT: I guess full body lames would only be required at high level competition, so I'd be safe for quite a while. Still..

[telkanuru]

The reason for the elemination of the metal piste (and the promotion of the wireless device) is to eliminate the audio spikes that result from the wire slapping on the piste in order to make fencing easier to broadcast.

[LUDICROUS]

Elevate the reels at the end of the piste a little bit? Hang em' from the walls?

[mrbiggs]

I don't understand this entire thing. This is how I read Roch's comments, in this and other articles:

RR: The audience is important in this and other sports
me: true
RR: We must look to the future, to how we can change and improve our sport
me: sounds good
RR: we must modernize fencing, and bring it to the level of other sports
me: alright! Let's get on this
RR: therefore, let's spend hundreds of dollars per fencer on useless and superflous equipment such as movie cameras, and in addition, make drastic, un-thought out changes to each weapon in a desparate attempt to reach out to an audience which, as much as they don't watch fencing now, would care even less about a more expensive, more snobbish sport
me: What???

I think that Roch's ideas are good, but there HAS to be another way to accomplish his objectives. He's acting hastily. Streamlining fencing should not be done with gigantic, sweeping changes. It should be done gradually, over a period of time. I think that Roch feels that the next Olympics are a deadline, that we need to have American viewers watching fencing within 3 years. This will just plain not happen, no matter how telegenic fencing becomes. We need to take our time before we kill fencing completely.

[S. Hunter]

At least the American public, probably most of the rest of the world, will never be interested in fencing as a spectator sport, partially because it isn't the glamorous swordplay they expect, and partially because unless we start using 2-Handed greatswords and one touch, it will never be understood by public at large. Honestly, if these changes go through, and the FIE continues to represent such a minority opinion, then either the powers that be will change, or they will lose their power. Its only a matter of time before a few countries close in geographical area break off into their own federation, or negative opinion forces Roche out of office. The question is, how much damage can he do before he goes?

[KD5MDK]

American audiences could be made to like fencing, at least WS, with the proper effort applied by the television producers. Run enough ads, promotions, and simply show it, and people will watch. It just takes concentrated work. Happens all the time.