Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

smohrle · 07-14-2005, 01:02 PM

Hi there -
I am new to fencing (my husband is coming back from a 20 year absence). We just purchased completely new kits to start out with. I have read a few posts about LP stuff, but am wondering what is the most likely thing that will break in this kit?
Purchased for each of us:
LP Contour Fit Mask, F.I.E. approved with 1600 newton bib
LP Sydney Range Jacket FIE 800N
LP Sydney Range Pants FIE 800N
LP Foil Lame
LP Economy range 3/4 body F.I.E. 800 N plastron
Chest guard
Electric Foil Glove
Foil/sabre body cord bayonet model (2)
Electric Foil - Pro-Range Electric foil pad 105mm, Electric foil blade Golubitsky-Pro, and Carbon Fiber French handle. (2)

Out of all of this, what is likely to break first? Just want to know to order some extras in...

Thanks so much for your time...
Sarah Mohrle

prototoast · 07-14-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smohrle

Hi there -
I am new to fencing (my husband is coming back from a 20 year absence). We just purchased completely new kits to start out with. I have read a few posts about LP stuff, but am wondering what is the most likely thing that will break in this kit?
Purchased for each of us:
LP Contour Fit Mask, F.I.E. approved with 1600 newton bib
LP Sydney Range Jacket FIE 800N
LP Sydney Range Pants FIE 800N
LP Foil Lame
LP Economy range 3/4 body F.I.E. 800 N plastron
Chest guard
Electric Foil Glove
Foil/sabre body cord bayonet model (2)
Electric Foil - Pro-Range Electric foil pad 105mm, Electric foil blade Golubitsky-Pro, and Carbon Fiber French handle. (2)

Out of all of this, what is likely to break first? Just want to know to order some extras in...

Thanks so much for your time...
Sarah Mohrle

Wow, that's really going all out for someone just starting. Probably the first thing that will happen will be that the blade will need to be rewired. Then maybe the body wires will need some minor repairs. The first major thing to "break" would either be the blades or your lamé will go dead.

I am a bit surprised about getting foils with the carbon fibre french grip. I would imagine you'd probably want to switch to a pistol grip (which would probably involve cutting and re-threading the tang).

smohrle · 07-14-2005, 01:43 PM

Hi there -
I tried the pistol grip at the club (Fencing Institute of Texas - in Dallas) that we are taking lessons from and did NOT like it. I have been using the club equipment, and really like the feel of the french grip. Also, my husband likes the frenh grip.

I have always, in every sport I do, gone with the philosophy that buying high quality gear the first time around is the better bet. We have a friend that fencing (VERY good) and she is the one that recommended all the different gear. She uses LP gear.

You don't think we made any mistakes? Do you think I should order extra body cords? I ordered 1 or each foil, and we ordered 4 eletric foils...

Thanks for the help!
Sarah Mohrle

fencinman89 · 07-14-2005, 01:57 PM

Thats quite a chunk of change, Im sure Barry will be happy to meet you. When it comes to posibbly changing form the carbon fibre to a pistol grip, you will not need to cut the tang. The carbon fibre grip is 20cm long, and therefore it would be illegal if it used the traditional french pommel. You do need the special spanner that LP sells to tighten the grip. You can't get it anywhere else. welcome to the board and happy fencing.
-Tre'

prototoast · 07-14-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smohrle

Hi there -
I tried the pistol grip at the club (Fencing Institute of Texas - in Dallas) that we are taking lessons from and did NOT like it. I have been using the club equipment, and really like the feel of the french grip. Also, my husband likes the frenh grip.

I have always, in every sport I do, gone with the philosophy that buying high quality gear the first time around is the better bet. We have a friend that fencing (VERY good) and she is the one that recommended all the different gear. She uses LP gear.

You don't think we made any mistakes? Do you think I should order extra body cords? I ordered 1 or each foil, and we ordered 4 eletric foils...

Thanks for the help!
Sarah Mohrle

There's certainly nothing wrong with the quality of what you bought, and if you can afford it, go for it--it's all good stuff.

2 body cords per person should be okay (it's the minimum the usfa requires for competitions). LP body cords are top quality and are quite durable, though I would recommend looking into learning at least some basic armoring techniques (for weapon and body cord repair--or at least for diagnostic purposes so you know what the various problems are). So perhaps your next purchase would just involve some tools (I just fence sabre so I'll leave it to someone who actually understands how foils work to advise you on what tools one might need for foil repair).

Generally, french grips are not used for foil, but if that's what you prefer, I'm not going to tell you to switch (at least not in an armory thread).

smohrle · 07-14-2005, 03:39 PM

Good advice on the repair book! Any suggestions on a good book or DVD for foil?

Thanks!
Sarah

CvilleFencer · 07-14-2005, 04:03 PM

As other have said you bought what is arguably the best kit in the world so the jacket/mask/pants should last several years. You will probably get about 6 months to a year of hard use out of the glove. As for what to expect to break, as in not reparable, that will be the blades most likely. The lame should last a year or so if you take care of it (don't store it in plastic or wad it up, wash it after practice or once a week, ect) The weapons and body cords will need tuning up or replacement parts and I am pretty sure you have an armourer or someone who serves as one at your local club. As for what to buy spares for, LP uses a unique point for their weapons that is very uncommon in the US.

By yourself a bag of screws, a couple of points, a few wires (other brands will work and LP wires are not my favorite, but since you are buying replacement parts and I'm not the one fixing weapons might as well by it all from one source...) and a bag of springs. Other than that you should be good to go for a few years. Congrats on your spiffy kit. There are fencers on the national points list that don't have gear quite that good and many more that would love to drop a couple grand in Barry's shop! Welcome to the sport and the board. You should really quite that silly foil thing while you are still in the learning process and take up EPEE by the way. It is the one true weapon and the way to fencing enlightenment. Stay away from saber since you seem like a nice person...

Zilverzmurfen · 07-14-2005, 04:38 PM

Congrats on your investment! It seems you are both likely to stay with the sport for a while, eh?

Since all the others have already given you such good advice I would just add some extra 'extras' to Santas list:

I would buy an extra glove. Personally I think it's nice to have a dry glove to change to, especially during competitions or intense assauts.

...and now since you have aaaaall that equipment you may want a bag to carry it all in?

Happy fencing!

KD5MDK · 07-14-2005, 06:24 PM

A nice bag springs to mind.
You will need 2 body cords each for competitions, so it might not be a bad idea to have a spare in case one fails at armory control.

Tips are probably the first to go, tip screws and springs. So get some spares of that.
Your club is fortunate enough to have armorers, so be sure to talk to them and learn from their advice.

Finally, come to the 2005 Longhorn Open at UT Austin this fall. It will be one of the biggest and best tournaments in the section.

smohrle · 07-15-2005, 09:40 AM

KD5MDK: Thanks for the invite! That is a nice ride from Dallas...I don't think I will be good enough to compete by then, but it would be fun to watch.

We ended up being very lucky and are in a beginner's class that is only the two of us, so we get Katalina to ourselves for about 2.5 hours every evening and on Saturday's.

Zilverzmurfen: I am coming from Ironman triathlons, so this is a fun, challenging change of pace. I really, really seem to like this sport. It is not something that can be mastered easily or fast, and that has a lot of appeal to me. It is also something I can be competitive against my husband (he does not do tri's). I went ahead and purchased two bags from Blue Gauntlet (the eatra large rolling ones) and foil blade covers (however one trip to Home Depot could get us as many blade cover as we ever needed). I only bought one glove, so that is a really good idea. Thanks!

A couple rather stupid questions: How do you wash a lame? I heard you wash the knickers and jacket with woolite on cold and hang dry, same way on the lame? Also, do you ever wash the inside of the mask (the clothe part)?

I did not put it on the list, but I also got us (2) test/tool kits from LP. So I should buy a bag of screws, a couple of points, a few wires and a bag of springs. Should I buy some extra blades just to have on hand? We got those Electric foil blade Golubitsky-Pro blades, do I need to look at other ones, or should get a couple more of those suffice?

Again, thanks for all y'all's help!

Thanks,
Sarah Mohrle

prototoast · 07-15-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smohrle

A couple rather stupid questions: How do you wash a lame? I heard you wash the knickers and jacket with woolite on cold and hang dry, same way on the lame? Also, do you ever wash the inside of the mask (the clothe part)?

Unless you have an infinity lame (which you don't), never put a lame in the washing machine. Any bending/stretching causes breaks which will eventually lead to failure. I suggest washing in in a bathtub with mild amounts of ammonia.

WhipLash · 07-15-2005, 10:11 AM

i think it's a standard for competitors in the US to have a spare WEAPON. Since you have only 1 each you should invest in another complete weapon, not juz the blade.

Zilverzmurfen · 07-15-2005, 10:13 AM

Zilverzmurfen · 07-15-2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipLash

i think it's a standard for competitors in the US to have a spare WEAPON. Since you have only 1 each you should invest in another complete weapon, not juz the blade.

She said she'd bought two weapons each so they should be sorted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by smohrle

Purchased for each of us:

*snip*

Electric Foil - Pro-Range Electric foil pad 105mm, Electric foil blade Golubitsky-Pro, and Carbon Fiber French handle. (2)

KD5MDK · 07-15-2005, 10:20 AM

Well, if you're starting beginners classes now, they perhaps you won't be ready to compete quite yet. However, you should probably ask your instructor what they think. Personally, I would have quit fencing if I wasn't competing fairly soon after starting, but that's just a personality defect.

My advice is not to buy spare blades just yet. Yours should last a while, being new and all, (no personaly experience with them), and so there's no urgency to load up on things you don't need yet. Also, it may be that some other blade ends up suiting you better, so I'd give your current ones a good breaking in before you decide which to stay with. Finally, while fixing a tip isn't that difficult, properly rewiring a blade is another step up on the difficulty chart, and I'd let someone with experience do your first fix.

My mask has a removable liner that I toss in with my other fencing clothes, but I've seen it said by many people that the whole thing does fine in a dishwasher...

smohrle · 07-15-2005, 10:39 AM

Zilverzmurfen: Thanks for the links....I should have done that first

. Sorry....

KD5MDK: Yeah, I told Katalina last night that I did not care about competing just yet, want to become technically good first

...

Thanks again for the advice...I just keep lurking and reading...

Sarah

Sundevil · 07-31-2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smohrle

<stuff snipped>

A couple rather stupid questions: How do you wash a lame? I heard you wash the knickers and jacket with woolite on cold and hang dry, same way on the lame? Also, do you ever wash the inside of the mask (the clothe part)?
<more snipped>

Thanks,
Sarah Mohrle

Pardon me for asking - but didn't you state in an earlier post that you are at FIT? They have a great armorer in their club - you can learn TONS from him. He's been doing this for at least 10 years that I know of, but probably longer. He's very knowleagable and not arrogant like some national armorers.

smohrle · 07-31-2005, 08:33 PM

Yup...I train at FIT. Ovie is great! He has been really helpfull with the grip switching (another thread about carbon fiber handle). Thanks for the advice, though....

D'Art · 08-01-2005, 09:35 AM

I would just add that most of the tools you'd need for repairing your weapons and bodywires are everyday stuff like small screwdrivers, allen keys (if you do decide to change to pistol grips later, but, then, why should you if you are happy with the C.F. ones?), bottle-nosed pliers/mole grips, etc. But, if you want to rewire blades in the future, there would probably be an armoury course somewhere near you (at least there are 2-3 every year in Britain),which would give you all the information you'd need.
And a second glove is a great idea, too.

Hope you keep it up, you seem pretty keen, anyway

pigeonmeister · 08-01-2005, 10:28 AM

Congratulations on your excellent purchases, you really have done well for yourself and it sounds like you have the commitment to back it up. Combined with your natural fitness and exclusive beginner coaching I think you will find you will improve very quickly and get a lot from our excellent sport.

Not much more to add, if the blade breaks a month or so after buying then Barry usually replaces it free. There is every chance that you will still have both blades in tact (i.e not snapped in half!) after a year- sometimes 3 or 4 years! I have broken 3 LP FIE blades in the last 2 years of heavy use (and 2 of these blades were over a year old), but I have had to have had other problems fixed at least 4-5 times.You would be lucky not to break a wire or have some point, spring or screw troubles in the next 6 months though. I wouldn't bother mending yourself yet, although watching someone else do it is illuminating. The one thing I would say is that I don't think your under plastron covers the heart area (still very good and legal). The Allstar underplastron covers the heart and is the same price I think.

LP Lames are very long lasting so no worries there, dont put it in washing machine though (although my mum used to for years and it didn't seem to mind). Great choice of mask as well, that Contour fit is amazing in my opinion.

Some 800N uniforms (as you say in the US!) tend to shrink in the wash and tumble drier. The LP Sydney range, however, doesn't seem to have this problem- I wash it on a 40 degree wash and even spin dry it. Even though LP don't recommend tumble drying, mine is always fine.

If you dislike pistol grips then don't worry but don't give up on them. You'd be surprised but I reckon that a year or so from now you will probably find it better for your technique. If not then you can emulate a veteran UK fencer who, on his return to competetive foil (very soon after the timings changed), managed to win the 4th largest Senior UK comp by pommeling with a french grip!