national symbol on knickers

[yeoldearmourer]

Originally Posted by Peach

I was talking to Phil about the copyright issue. He seems to think it can be worked out.

Dear Peach when I was talking to Bob and them it sound like it wasn't going to happen. I have permission to do them for my Family menmbers noww but I am holding off. By the way people I been doing Machine emb now for 2 years for my heatlh reason and I can do anything that Phil Can and cheaper with top of line theard. And theard does make the difference

[timstang]

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

At the Vancouver WC last weekend, they allowed canadians to duct tape the required patches to their uniforms.

Sigh - I was the armourer at the Vancouver WC. I allowed the duct tape solution in true Canadian style (we duct tape everything) because there was a question regarding whether the colours were required immediately or after Linz...And apparently I'm a real softy when it comes to people getting repeated red cards.

A large number of athletes didn't have their country colours, I spent some time photocopying and taping them onto a lot of pretty girls. :-)

The issue regarding embroidery is not addressed by the FIE specifically, they merely require the colours to be present. Judging from the athletes from Austrialia, Canada and Argentina present at the WC, embroidered patches have been accepted elsewhere.

[oso97]

It is UTTERLY rediculous to have a required logo for competition and that logo only be allowed to be placed by a single vendor, who holds a copyright to it and refuses to allow anyone else to utlize it. Talk about protectionist policies! If Marx Enterprises is doing this, then they can count on never recieving my or any of my students business again.

[KD5MDK]

I would say that any required logos should be the property of the USFA, and it should be required by the bylaws to be as such.

[great bowyer]

Originally Posted by oso97

It is UTTERLY rediculous to have a required logo for competition and that logo only be allowed to be placed by a single vendor, who holds a copyright to it and refuses to allow anyone else to utlize it.

this sounds like a monopoly on US fencers that wish to fence in international events with rules conforming equipment. i think there are laws against this.

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I would say that any required logos should be the property of the USFA, and it should be required by the bylaws to be as such.

Originally Posted by great bowyer

this sounds like a monopoly on US fencers that wish to fence in international events with rules conforming equipment. i think there are laws against this.

I agree on both points. The USFA should hold the copyright to ensure that no one can monopolize production. It sure would be nice if you could order knickers with the logo already applied (just as you can get a jacket with your name already on it.)

[fencinman89]

I disagree with the fact that he can do this but, it is a very good idea business wise.
-Tre'

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by fencinman89

I disagree with the fact that he can do this but, it is a very good idea business wise.
-Tre'

The same could be said of Bill Gates

[fencinman89]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

The same could be said of Bill Gates

The same could be said of alot of people.
-Tre'

[yeoldearmourer]

The Marx Bros has infroced there copywrite before because most of the vendors ask permission to use it. Most armourers can do the same for their test equiepment and some do. There alot more going on here behind the scences then just a copy write issue. Trust me on this Most web site are copywriter. For now since I know alot behind the secnces I stick by the Marx Bros who has never raise their price on the work in over ten years. Most company that pepole work have the right to take there work and pat it or copywrite for the company without paying a dime. While in the military I devise several things the military took my plans and models and they sudden become US Goverement Pro. Not a dime for them either

[yeoldearmourer]

Dan design and copywriter the US logo the USFA ask permission to sumbit it to the FIE. Pro print wear has the exclusive right to use the USFA logo which he paid the USFA 20% on each sale for that use because the USFA Logo is copywrite by the USFA. Therefore I can not use the offical USFA logo on any of my products that I sale. Same thing with the US logo it is copywrite and therefore protected. If Pro Print wear or any other vendor what to paid the Marx Ent for the right to use it they can. don't thing that Pro Print won't take me to court if I use The USFA LOGO on any of product I make think again. I know Phil for a while and like the man but he has paid for the right to be the Official Suppiler of USFA items. The United States OLYMpiC Committe went after a lot of company in the states for using even the word Olympic in title of restuarent and other business. in 84 and 96

[KD5MDK]

The difference is the USFA logo isn't required for anything. However, if I were to compete at the international level, I am required to wear the US colors on my knickers. Thus, nobody from the US can compete internationally until Marx Enterprises gets their share from them. This is inappropriate.

[yeoldearmourer]

The Marx brothers design it and the USFA saw it and ask them if the USFA could make it the offical design. The Marxs didn't ask the USFA but the USFA decide it should be the offical design. I don't if anyone saw the towels we were sell with two books fencing each other on towels they are not copy write. But by go the saying above them are.

[KD5MDK]

I'm not objecting to Marx having a copyright on something they designed. I'm objecting to the USFA adopting a design which they don't own, or have purchased.

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'm not objecting to Marx having a copyright on something they designed. I'm objecting to the USFA adopting a design which they don't own, or have purchased.

I think that this is the essence of the problem right here. I know that the Marx's are great guys and have done a lot for fencing and the USFA. However the fact remains that they are also affiliated with at least one salle and presumably have national and international level fencers, probably more than one. What if, for some reason they decide that Bob is the only person that can take their star fencer in some type of qualifying event that needs the aforementioned required symbol and refuse to offer it to him. A business has the right to refuse service to anyone after all, just as a Vegas casino. From another angle lets say that Bob has a huge falling out for with the Marx organization for whatever reason and Bob needs to fence internationally. If they do not want to sell the symbol to Bob they don't have to and he can't fence. If he has someone else use print the design or has someone else get it printed for him he is likely to find himself in court along with whoever got/printed the design for him.

What if the Marx Salle has a huge feud with another salle (I know that irrational blood feuds between fencing salles never ever happens, but just for the sake of argument ) and the Marx's refuse to allow the use of their protected design by members of that salle? Nothing to do about it really. One could sue the USFA but that would be both costly and dubious in its chances of success but most importantly would take a LONG time.

Now one could argue that if any of the above came to pass that the USFA would do what it should have done to begin with and come up with its own design for use by all athletes. Assuming that they would be willing to do so and were not contractually bound against it by whatever deal they have with Marx Enterprises, the FIE could always decide that the USFA should twist a bit for their lack of vision and refuse to allow the new symbol, or delay it for a long while.

None of the above are very likely from what little I know of the Marx's, but the fact that the USFA allowed the potential for such a situation to come to pass causes me to ask yet again what they hell are most of these people thinking when they come up with this sort of thing. I can only assume that the wiser and more farsighted members of the USFA that I happen to know (that would be Brad and Christine, everyone else is just a name to me) are not involved in a lot of these decisions. If so, WTF guys? In all seriousness I would really like to have the logic of this decision explained to me in small words and preferably pictures and hand puppets, cause I just don't get it...

[Inquartata]

I said it before on the thread on the USFA's selection of other official providers: there seems to be a lack of transparency in the process. There need to be guidelines and procedures to ensure that there are not deals being cut in back rooms, and it needs to be done out in the open. This is perhaps another example.

I don't know how the USFA hands a de facto commercial monopoly to a favored supplier and mandates that it be used. What would the reaction be, do you think, if they passed a requirement to use only, say, Triplette equipment in all competitions under their control? Or made Allstar the "official USFA supplier" for blades---no more S+M, no Vniti, no LP, no Fleche? There'd be rioting in the streets.

Well, protests in the hallways, at least.

[KD5MDK]

Even correcting this will be expensive (unless the USFA buys the copyright) because if we were to submit a new design as the "Free USA colors", everybody who has gotten their expensive FIE gear printed with the old design will need to get it redone or replaced.

[great bowyer]

didn't they change the design a few years ago? if they did, it would be no different to do it again.

[millsisland]

Since the "colors" as applied by Marx seem to fade so quickly, I'm going to try to set the new stencils on my daughter's knickers by using a recipe for fiixing tie dye: 5 T soda ash + 1/4 cup salt per gallon of water. Place item in plastic bag for 24 hours, rinse, set further with heat. I'll of course try to limit the concoction to the area around the stencils.

Anyone have any better ideas?

Mills

[dekko]

does proprint wear have a 'problem' since they are embroidering the logo on what ever you give them now? If it does have a copyright and someone owns it.....?