How was the new FOIL timing for you at the USA Nationals

[Barry Paul]

This weekend the F.I.E. are havimg a meeting of there special foil timing special subcommitte.(not including any manufacturers)

However this is a chance to give some real feedback of your experience. Please can you post your real name and ranking in U.S. and the following information( if you don't want to broadcast your name on the forum p.p me with the information.)

Information. How often do you think you made a good hit which did not register?
(remarks like all the time are not helpful)
If possible which hit type was being attempted.
a. Whipped in hit.
b. Direct thrust done at the correct distance and force.
c. Direct thrust but very close distance with lots of bending of the blade.
d. fast hard which hit a hard part of the target and probably bounced.
Of these failed hits did you check your point insulation each time?

What apparatus were you fencing on.

[KD5MDK]

Is this different from your other thread in being about sabre?

[darius]

I counted at least a dozen hits on simultaneous actions where I made a flick, my opponent made a straight attack, and the result was one light. Mine. My opponent could hit directly in the chest (no chestplate here) and his light would not go off. The effectiveness of flicks has been reduced, but the effectiveness of thrusts has been reduced to the point where it seems like a flick is better than a thrust for a simultaneous action (both fencers make fast advance-lunge when the referee says "fence!").

Direct hits with correct distance; 3-4 times. All on chestplate wearers.

Direct hits with very close distance; perhaps 5-10 times.

My points were very well insulated. Since the introduction of new timings, I have been paranoid about tip tape.

darius

[Barry Paul]

This thread is about foil.

[Barry Paul]

Darius what apparatus was being used?

[darius]

SG-12, for the most part.

darius

[fencinman89]

I would roughly guess that 1:10 of "Good Hits" did not register. We filmed nealry all of my bouts. I have yet to watch them due to work but when I get around to it ill give everyone a better idea.
-Tre'

[Cotlar]

Mr. Paul:
I did not attend nationals nor am I a ranked fencer. Just one of the legion of decent fencers that have been around for 20+ years. I used to have a "C" until our kids came along and I fenced less. However, I am still a competitive fencer. Nevertheless, I think you should consider my opinion, as people like me are the vast majority of fencers in the world.

I am a classically trained fencer, and pretty good at that. I don't whip in the blade, and I don't flick. I do have excellent foil timing and a good defense and offense. One of my basic moves is a beat-disengage or parry-disengage. My last competition, which was local toward the end of June in the Washington Metro region, was appalling, not because of lack of training but because of the new timing.

I can confidentally state that 50% of my straight attacks simply did not register. My opponant would simply step forward and hit with a counter attack, thus getting the point. My last point of the day was instructive: a simple feint-disengage with a resounding hit. No light. In insisted with a remise without removing the blade. No light. I insisted again, but then my opponant stepped forward and got the light. I looked at my blade afterward and saw that it had literally been bent at a 80-90 degree angle.

I have to add that lack of tip tape was not the problem. I checked that regularly throughout the competition. And in fact, I had used your excellent blades and tips.

Mr. Paul, this is not foil. Its not even decent fencing. I am now questioning my 20+ year committment to this sport and suspect I am not the only one. I urge you and your colleagues to fix this problem as soon as possible.

Andrew D. Cotlar

[Barry Paul]

Originally Posted by fencinman89

I would roughly guess that 1:10 of "Good Hits" did not register. We filmed nealry all of my bouts. I have yet to watch them due to work but when I get around to it ill give everyone a better idea.
-Tre'

If you could let me have some film of what you claim this would help. some of the fie still do not see the problem.

[LUDICROUS]

Edit: Questions answered, thanks mfp.

[fencinman89]

Originally Posted by Barry Paul

If you could let me have some film of what you claim this would help. some of the fie still do not see the problem.

Ill try my best. Would you like me to put it on the board, or do sumthing else?
-Tre'

[fencinman89]

I also have a question to ask. Barry, what do you honestly think will happen at the meeting? Meaning, do you think they will change the timing again (back to what it was) or will they leave it as is? Also my parents believe that my "1:10" ratio is far too low. They Believe it is more like 7 or 8. When I said 1:10, I put that so it wouldn't come out as saying my TRUELY HORRIBLE results this year in foil are due to the timing. In my heart of hearts I honestly think it was more like 6/7:10 that did not register.
-Tre'

P.S.- I'd also have to agree with Cotlar on the fact that foil now sucks in my opinion. I've decided that it is no longer fun (not because i did porrly at Nationals, which I am willing to admit) but because i cant do anyhting that is fun any longer. Im in the process of converting to Epee, Which is what ill be doing at the UPenn camp in a few weeks, rather than foil that I have done for the past 2 years at the same camp.

[Barry Paul]

Cotla.

The block out time is now much shorter, so was the problem that you were not fast enough to the target, allowing your oponent to get one light only.

[R. Exnicios]

Fenicng on SG 12, SG11, Favero 01, Favero 05


a. Whipped in hit.
Almost never register but I am not a "flicker" anyway

b. Direct thrust done at the correct distance and force.
In a 15 touch bout at least 4 or 5 times.

c. Direct thrust but very close distance with lots of bending of the blade.
In a 15 touch bout maybe 8

d. fast hard which hit a hard part of the target and probably bounced.
In a 15 touch bout maybe 2 0r 3 times

Of these failed hits did you check your point insulation each time? yes

The real problem is with young and novice fencers. They attack and hit and nothing goes off. so they do 1 of severl DANGEROUS things.

1. they stop fencing becuase they think they have registered a hit
2. They turn around and walk away thinking they have hit.
3. they close distance and hit again & again harder each time out of frustration.

The new timing has made foil a train wreck and far worse for spectators. they see a hit but no light!

And if they want to know who I am please tell them
Richard Exnicios
20 years of foil fencing and 15 years of coaching
Not a great fencer but cranking out beguinners and novice fencers.

Who ever gets the timing fixed will be a hero to the fencing world!

Cheers

[Black Jeebus]

I disagree, I think that foil is still fun, and even better it now has those moments where both fencers know one of them has hit but nothing happens. Although in a tournament setting this is very upsetting, but in club we always end up laughing at the ridiculous misses.

EDIT: Anybody know what happened?

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by fencinman89

Ill try my best. Would you like me to put it on the board, or do sumthing else?
-Tre'

If you really were having problems, the footage will be appreciated. It was mentioned in another thread that though many fencers complain about the problem, there hasn't been any footage so far to prove it.