To teach or not to teach?

[FencerGuy900]

I am going to be teaching/coaching a club at my school with the same reference as a chess club. I'm debating on what to teach. It has been suggested you cannot truly fence if you din't know the moves. My gathering is that it is like playing ping pong. You never just plunk it back and forth. You put in a twist or a trick. I've also heard (and was taught like this) of the "worthy" system. I don't want to bog down the student with too many things that are too complicated to execute and more importantly to react to. This system takes along time. I have been fencing a year, and I KNOW, I havn't earned too much. I have picked up a lot on the way but nothing from my instructor. I remember when I was being taught, that I wanted to fight like Zorro, and I know these high-school kids (9-12 grade for those of you out of country) will too. I torn between spilling my guts and using the worthy system. I don't really know which one is better. What are yall's tip, advice, comments, criticism, etc, etc?

[steyr762khx]

start slow with new fencers, and make them proficent with the basics. once the basics have been laid down, slowly intraduce the higher level strategy. after everything else seems to be going well, introduce the "tricks". This way, when they get the tricks, they know what to do with them and don't use them as "oh shiat" manovers and complain that they don't work. That and if you've only been fencing a year, pick up some books about teaching/fencing/coaching, i use magnum libre de escrime and it helps me out a lot.

[broncofencer]

2 things you should know

1. once a beginner has a blade everything else goes downhill for about 2-3 weeks. for this reason I usually work footwork alot and do so every time they show up. Also during this period be a little harder on safety than you might otherwise be as this is when it is at the worst.


2. You will probably lose more fencers than you keep. Its generally not you its just the nature of the sport. It happens to all of us that have coached or taught fencing to beginners.

as the above person said stick to the basics teach them to "fence" they will pick up tricks and such on their own quick enough.

[escri-maniac]

I started fencing in Feb 2000 and began teaching a year later when asked to where I work. It's been a mixed bag. I don't actually get to fence myself all that much but my coach is convinced that my form became better due to me having to model good form for my students. Teach - but also don't forget to do your own fencing!

Fencing lady

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by FencerGuy900

I am going to be teaching/coaching a club at my school with the same reference as a chess club. I'm debating on what to teach. It has been suggested you cannot truly fence if you din't know the moves. My gathering is that it is like playing ping pong. You never just plunk it back and forth. You put in a twist or a trick. I've also heard (and was taught like this) of the "worthy" system. I don't want to bog down the student with too many things that are too complicated to execute and more importantly to react to. This system takes along time. I have been fencing a year, and I KNOW, I havn't earned too much. I have picked up a lot on the way but nothing from my instructor. I remember when I was being taught, that I wanted to fight like Zorro, and I know these high-school kids (9-12 grade for those of you out of country) will too. I torn between spilling my guts and using the worthy system. I don't really know which one is better. What are yall's tip, advice, comments, criticism, etc, etc?

What in the hell are you talking about?

[Tiwaz]

Originally Posted by FencerGuy900

I've also heard (and was taught like this) of the "worthy" system.

Whats system are we talking about here?
There are a lot of systems to choose from!
If your teaching sport fencing will you use the French, Italian, Hungarian, German, Polish, Russian etc. Or are you going to teach them classical or theatrical.
All these systems are regarded as worthy by someone, there's probably even someone who insists that you can only fence properly after committing a sexual act in baboon enclosure.
So which is it?

[FencerGuy900]

Thanks for the moral support. But I asked for it.

[qatet]

Originally Posted by FencerGuy900

Thanks for the moral support. But I asked for it.

Well, I think that there are people here who would like to give you advice, but you didn't ask your question very clearly. Try rephrasing it. Maybe you'll get more concrete information. Parts that would help us respond might include:
- the system you were trained with (and I note that you think you've learned relatively little through this system, so maybe it's not a way that you want to train others)
- the system you seem to hold in higher respect
- how many potential students?
- when, where, how often, with what equipment, etc. will you be coaching? I very much don't understand your description,"with the same reference as a chess club")

As near as I can tell, you (with only one year of training under your belt) are still trying to sort out what fencing is for yourself. Contemplating teaching it forces you to better understand the sport, but you are bound to feel rather like a blind person leading the blind. I know that when I had been fencing for only a year (in a program with a very strong structure) I had spent my attention on learning the material, not on learning both the material and how it was taught. Teaching and learning are very different actions, and require a very different approach to the material.

The advice you've had here already - lots of emphasis on the basics - is probably the most that you can really expect to teach until you've trained more.

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by Tiwaz

...there's probably even someone who insists that you can only fence properly after committing a sexual act in baboon enclosure.
So which is it?

Uhhh, okay. What the heck are you talking about?!

[Tiwaz]

Originally Posted by FencerGuy900

Thanks for the moral support. But I asked for it.

It wasn't an attack, I was just trying to ilustrate the point that you haven't given us a whole lot to go on.
My advice would be, as the others have said, work the baisics and try and do so with logical progression i.e don't work on defence if they don't know how to attack etc.

Tiwaz (off to force my students to go to London Zoo )

[swordsen]

Go get the book "Taking foil groups to a competative level." Follow it. It is a very good system for starting from nevr touched a blade to fencing.

[ReverseLunge]

I don't think you are qualified to teach yet.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I don't think you are qualified to teach yet.

As much as I usually disagree with RL, I think he's right in this opinion. It's very hard to teach, and near impossible when you don't have a full grasp of what's going on. I would suggest at least going to coach's college or fencing a few more years before trying to teach others. This isn't meant as an attack, I've been fencing a lot for 2 years and wouldn't trust myself with teaching much.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I don't think you are qualified to teach yet.

There seems to be a lot of that in fencing. How many coaches web bios say something like "Fencing for over 15 years, coaching for over 13"--I don't know what it is about fencing, but a lot of people think they can coach with minimal experience themselves.
Contrast with a sport like baseball, where countless people will play for 10 years or more, and not feel remotely qualified to coach.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

As much as I usually disagree with RL, I think he's right in this opinion. It's very hard to teach, and near impossible when you don't have a full grasp of what's going on. I would suggest at least going to coach's college or fencing a few more years before trying to teach others. This isn't meant as an attack, I've been fencing a lot for 2 years and wouldn't trust myself with teaching much.

You are such a wimp!

This isn't meant as an attack!

[RebelFencer]

haha, chill dude. I wasn't calling yours an attack, I was just clarifying that mine wasn't. Who am I to tell the person whether yours was an attack or not..unless it was painfully obvious?

[ReverseLunge]

!!!This Is Meant As An Attack!!!

[FencerGuy900]

I am seriously going to take all of your advice accept, that I am going to teach. Not out of ego, but out of being the most qualified person at this club. And to clear up this club issue, when I said "chess club" I ment it as a school affair. Not as in where you fence, salle d'arms kind of things. The school has my AFJROTC instructor as the teacher of the class. But when he finishes the beginners cource at the local health club where I fence and took the class, he will only have six months expirence, while I will have been fencing for a year and a half and a couple of tournaments in there. So I admitted that I needed help and have no problem asking for it/recieving it. No offence is takin from critical views so let know if anything strikes you as a good refernce or training material. PS. I didn't mean to cause these issues with the attacks. Sorry.

[qatet]

If you have absolutely decided that you are going to coach, my best suggestion would be to go and take a beginning class again (or at least find one to watch), with a coach who you respect. Pay attention to the order in which things are taught. Pay attention to the way that things are taught. Ask questions (afterwards) about how and why the coach chooses this progression. Write it down. Make a coaching log for yourself.

In addition, this continued emphasis on the fundamentals can only help your own game in the long run, so it's not a purely altruistic process.

As for resources about coaching in general, _The_Inner_Game_of_Tennis_ is one of the best books I know on the subject. It talks about the learning process from the vantage of the student and of the teacher. It's also a very quick read, a bit over 100 pages.

Quite honestly, the best option would be to get somebody from a club in the area who could come in and coach, but it doesn't sound like that's an option. You really might want to call around and check, though.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

!!!This Is Meant As An Attack!!!

Ahhhhh!!! The color!!!!