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veeco · 08-20-2002, 10:29 AM

Loit won all his matches by the narrowest margins... I would not be proud of myself if I was him.

He's just an overweight Estonian who thinks he's the bomb. But he's not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> .

veeco · 08-20-2002, 10:33 AM

I don't know if they just stood there, but if Vezzali did, that's strange because Trillini did not and she was fencing in the top 8 as well.

Bau was beat fair and square (15-10) by Knapek.

That leaves a Russian on Russian final.

I have a hunch that Kolobkov might pull another world championship title into his collection.

veeco · 08-20-2002, 10:35 AM

... Though Jeannet is looking pretty good.

He has not been touched more than 10 times per bout, and he is the only one in the top 4 who can claim that.

veeco · 08-20-2002, 10:36 AM

And Obry was a non-factor. He got knocked out by Pena in the first round. That's gotta hurt.

I think someone is about to retire...

damianip · 08-20-2002, 10:41 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by veeco:
Loit won all his matches by the narrowest margins... I would not be proud of myself if I was him.

He's just an overweight Estonian who thinks he's the bomb. But he's not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> .<hr /></blockquote>As another overweight, French grip posting, annoying fencer with infinitely less talent than Mr. Meelis, I think that we have to give him some credit for the degree of success he achieves with his less-than-optimal physical gifts.

He uses every advantage and trick he can to get a win. Let's give him credit for cunning and whiles.

A training partner of my son got him in a bout in the Montreal WC. His comment was the guy has an astounding parry-riposte (particularly for an épéeist0 and uses it to great advantage. The other fencers respect his skills and consider him a difficult and dangerous opponent.

Isn't a tradition that the Estonians produce head case "artists" in épée? Another one which springs to mind is Kajak...

Paolo

veeco · 08-20-2002, 10:47 AM

Mainly, I don't have a problem with his weight, rather with his attitude.

As you said, he uses every advantage and trick, and that's great. A lot of other epee fencers fence like that. Milanoli comes to mind, as well as Riboud did before. It's OK to be an *** , but it's not OK to mock the whole crowd you're in front of at the final of a world championship, disrespect the referee, and the IOC rep who's sitting in the stands right in front of you.

That's basically the grudge I have against him. I don't think that he his that great of a fencer compared to other (Kabermaa or Vaht are better in my opinion). I am kind of sad that he made it to the top 8, because I don't think that he is a good representation of what epee fencing at a high level is. But whatever.

damianip · 08-20-2002, 10:56 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by veeco:
Mainly, I don't have a problem with his weight, rather with his attitude.

As you said, he uses every advantage and trick, and that's great. A lot of other epee fencers fence like that. Milanoli comes to mind, as well as Riboud did before. It's OK to be an *** , but it's not OK to mock the whole crowd you're in front of at the final of a world championship, disrespect the referee, and the IOC rep who's sitting in the stands right in front of you.

That's basically the grudge I have against him. I don't think that he his that great of a fencer compared to other (Kabermaa or Vaht are better in my opinion). I am kind of sad that he made it to the top 8, because I don't think that he is a good representation of what epee fencing at a high level is. But whatever.<hr /></blockquote>I agree that his performance in last year's Men's Team competition was regrettable, but he was, again, trying to win (or in this case, lose the least number of points). Part of the issue which goes unnoticed is that the Hungarians refused to engage him because they knew of the dangers of attacking him. They were being just as non-combative but less theatrical about it.

My hero, Milanoli, is not too far off in the antics department. I'm sure that's what fosters the great "love" that the French épéeists have for him.

Anyway, my money is now on Pavel (I hope I don't jinx him).

Paolo

veeco · 08-20-2002, 11:25 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by damianip:
Anyway, my money is now on Pavel (I hope I don't jinx him).
<hr /></blockquote>No way!!!! Pavel is going to go down! I can't go talk to my Ukrainian fencing coach tonight and not be able to brag that a French fencer beat his Russian counterpart in the final of the world champs!!!

damianip · 08-20-2002, 11:26 AM

Veeco,

It's a Jeannet/Kolobkov final. This should be a good one.

Paolo

veeco · 08-20-2002, 11:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by damianip:

My hero, Milanoli, is not too far off in the antics department. I'm sure that's what fosters the great "love" that the French épéeists have for him.
<hr /></blockquote>There is a lot of difference between a Paolo Milanoli and a Meelis Loit.

Paolo Milanoli is a nut-case, but he knows it and he is fun and exuberant about it. He has flair.

Meelis Loit is just a nut-case. He belongs in a mental institution, not on a fencing strip. Meelis doesn't know he is crazy. He just is a selfless bear.

I am not sure I can convey my feelings about the two correctly, but anyway. I won't try to argue anymore as to whether Loit is "the bomb" or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

veeco · 08-20-2002, 11:34 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by damianip:
Veeco,

It's a Jeannet/Kolobkov final. This should be a good one.

Paolo<hr /></blockquote>I know... Russia already has at the worst one gold and at least two silvers assured today.

That's a good day for Russia.

Let's hope it's not a bad day for France as well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

edew · 08-20-2002, 11:40 AM

Yeah, while I've been harping on the asian tide, what's not noticed is that Russia has been doing some butt-kicking. Gold in MS, Gold in WF, silvers in WF and maybe a gold or silver for ME. Four of the six events, they get medals. And Jemaeva is wife of Mamedov and lives in Russia, so you might be able to add her to the list.

But, didn't they do that as well last year? The Russians have been constantly underestimated by the regular posters here. Hmm...

damianip · 08-20-2002, 11:40 AM

Update:

Milanoli received a black card at the end of his bout with Kolobkov. Apparently, he threw his mask after losing 15-14. He had been up 11-8, 13-10 and then 14-13 but couldn't double out.

He could be disqualified from the team competition.

Paolo

Veeco, I don't think Loit is the "bomb" either, I think he's just an interesting and a difficult fencer...

veeco · 08-20-2002, 11:46 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by edew:

But, didn't they do that as well last year? The Russians have been constantly underestimated by the regular posters here. Hmm...<hr /></blockquote>Talk about yourself. Russia is in a big chunk of my top-3 team predictions...

I think Italy was doing the major butt kicking last year:

ME, WF, MF, TWF was all gold for them IIRC.

Russia wasn't that bad and France neither. But in terms of gold medals Italy was the bomb.

Of course this year they only have Tarantino and Vanni so far.

[ 08-20-2002, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: veeco ]

veeco · 08-20-2002, 11:48 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by damianip:
Update:

Milanoli received a black card at the end of his bout with Kolobkov. Apparently, he threw his mask after losing 15-14. He had been up 11-8, 13-10 and then 14-13 but couldn't double out.

He could be disqualified from the team competition.
<hr /></blockquote>I am sure that "exceptions can be made" if he apologies

. However, I would not mind if he couldn't fence team, since I don't have Italy in my top 3.

Apparently Schaier is injured or something because he did not compete in his pool. So with Milanoli's black card that leaves Rota and Martinelli an Italian team of two...

[ 08-20-2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: veeco ]

veeco · 08-20-2002, 11:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by damianip:
Veeco, I don't think Loit is the "bomb" either, I think he's just an interesting and a difficult fencer...<hr /></blockquote>Sure. But he's not underrated.

damianip · 08-20-2002, 12:04 PM

It's Kolobkov!!!

This guy is never going to get tired (or retired at this rate).

I really need to see a tape of this comp.

Paolo

veeco · 08-20-2002, 12:20 PM

The Russians snatched all the medals today.

Amazing. Anyone care to explain why the score for the final of the women's foil was like 4/3?

Bojko won? I guess Youcheva is either pissed or laughing with her teammate because they actually corroborated Roch's words that women's foil was boring to watch.

I guess I would have prefered the other approach, which would have been to try and show a wonderful spectacle for the audience. Did someone think about that?

Sometimes it's better to fight negative comments with positive behavior.

edew · 08-20-2002, 12:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by veeco:
The Russians snatched all the medals today.

Amazing. Anyone care to explain why the score for the final of the women's foil was like 4/3?

Bojko won? I guess Youcheva is either pissed or laughing with her teammate because they actually corroborated Roch's words that women's foil was boring to watch.

I guess I would have prefered the other approach, which would have been to try and show a wonderful spectacle for the audience. Did someone think about that?

Sometimes it's better to fight negative comments with positive behavior.<hr /></blockquote>Teammates fencing each other for the gold is never as exciting as fencers from different countries. The Tarantino/Caserta sabre bout I have from the 1998 Chaux-au-Frond (or whatever) WC was clearly not that exciting. You can tell because the audience didn't cheer at all for one fencer or the other.

Either the scoring thingee got some bugs in it, or Bojko/Yucheva stalled enough to make it go to the last minute and flipped the bird to Roch while playing nice on the strip. I noticed a lot of other women's foil had low scores.

Last year, I think Russia won a lot of the team events, or took silver as well. So, that's what I meant about Russia doing well last year (and apparently, this year).