letter to ESPN

[Araznal]

Just because it might be exciting, does not mean that people would watch it. Everyone I know who does not fence sees the how physically challenging it is and they say it is exciting to watch. However, when I am asked why when two people hit eachother around the same time, how the touch is awarded, all I can say is, "It's called right-of-way. It's a little complicated." Then they suddenly lose interest.

I've tried explaining to people about right-of-way in the most simple way saying, "It doesn't matter who hits first, but who the aggressor is depending on moving their arm forward, or hitting the blade." They understand this easily and can follow most of the bout, but then there's an attack in preparation or PIL and suddenly, the non-fencer is really confused.

If there was someone who could explain right-of-way in simple terms, then I could imagine people actually watching fencing on tv.

[esskreemr]

Dear ESPN,

Thank you for your wonderful programming. Your outstanding commitment to sport is a model for all! With your superior programming lineup, I don't know how those other so-called sports channels are still on the air. How can their lineup of lacrosse, soccer, gymnastics, rugby and other so-called "athletic" sports even hold a candle to your lineup of baseball, baseball, and more baseball? It boggles the mind! Of course, when you're not showing baseball 24x7, you show quality sports competitions such as Hot Dog Eating and the National Spelling Bee. Please continue this herculean effort even while considering that baseball ratings are falling faster than Paris Hilton's pants.

Oh, by the way, I thought it might be fun to include fencing in your lineup. I remember watching the exciting, dynamic sport of fencing in the Olympics. Wow! I had a sudden, overwhelming urge to run out and purchase thousands of dollars of the sponsors' products!! I'm not sure what came over me. Well, thanks again for the quality programming! Whenever I see some huge, fat, hairy guy shoving a hot dog into his mouth, I think ESPN!

[Craig]

...all I can say is, "It's called right-of-way. It's a little complicated." Then they suddenly lose interest.

Try explaining the 2 line pass and offsides to hockey neophytes. Same thing about several types of illegal defense, etc. in basketball, and a whole host of baseball rules.

Good running commentary can help the understanding. Just saying - "ah, point in line, right's touch" is enough. Then when there is a break you can explain it if they ask. Otherwise they'll file it away as one of those situation specific rules that every sport has.

Fencing is NOT complicated in terms of rules. It may be fast and you may be three touches later in the bout by the time you get your words out, but that's no different than any other sport.

Craig

[Araznal]

You're right about the rules problem. I guess fencing will become popular when the first question I'm asked isn't, "Are the swords really sharp?" . Oy... I get that question more often than you can imagine.

[fencingmetalfan]

You're right about the rules problem. I guess fencing will become popular when the first question I'm asked isn't, "Are the swords really sharp?" . Oy... I get that question more often than you can imagine.

That's ALWAYS the first question I'm asked.

[Andreas]

Try this yourself, at the next tournament you go to ask a non fencer if watching fencing is boring. Do this at several tournaments over the next season.

Although this might reveal interesting results from non-fencers such a survey is flawed because you only ask people that made it to the tournament venue at all. If they'd find it really boring they would be likely to either not go there at all or to leave again soon...

[Gav]

I have shown Italian footage of the last Olympics to my work colleagues. Most of whom were derisory prior to seeing it. The general consensus was "Wow! Cool!" following it. I've stated elsewhere that I was surprised at the weapon they most liked - Sabre! - but even my diehard FencingWidow enjoyed the Sabre from Athens. They found Epee hard to follow - because the change of pace was too hard to follow (!) - and thought that Foil was 'just stupid'. I'm not kidding. I had to revise my opinion of whether Average Joes were capable of following Fencing after that. They knew exactly what was going on and were rooting for whichever side they deemed appropriate. They even started arguing over referee decisions. The only concession I will make is that a lot of them like sport in general.

[reposte]

Eurosport for example provides great programming that is exiting to watch

That part, saddly, is not true.

Other then that - your success is a triumph that will be shared by us all (who receive ESPN).

[reposte]

Gav,

I seriously doubt that your friends thinking that foil "is just stupid" does any service to assert the newly arrived insight of laymen understanding of fencing.

[Gav]

Gav,

I seriously doubt that your friends thinking that foil "is just stupid" does any service to assert the newly arrived insight of laymen understanding of fencing.

That's their opinion, not mine and it's the potential opinion of Fencing's target sporting audience. Denying it doesn't solve it. Oh, and I never said that they didn't understand it - they just thought it was stupid. PLenty of people have observed that Foil is probably 'the Fencers weapon'.

[haroldbuck]

Fencing is NOT complicated in terms of rules. It may be fast and you may be three touches later in the bout by the time you get your words out, but that's no different than any other sport.

The rules for American football are actually quite complicated, but people grow up watching football so it doesn't seem so coplicated to them.

[esskreemr]

I have shown Italian footage of the last Olympics to my work colleagues. Most of whom were derisory prior to seeing it. The general consensus was "Wow! Cool!" following it. I've stated elsewhere that I was surprised at the weapon they most liked - Sabre! - but even my diehard FencingWidow enjoyed the Sabre from Athens. They found Epee hard to follow - because the change of pace was too hard to follow (!) - and thought that Foil was 'just stupid'. I'm not kidding. I had to revise my opinion of whether Average Joes were capable of following Fencing after that. They knew exactly what was going on and were rooting for whichever side they deemed appropriate. They even started arguing over referee decisions. The only concession I will make is that a lot of them like sport in general.

You don't suppose a bit of researcher's bias could have entered the "study", do you?

Gav showing friends fencing:
"Ok, here's epee. See how exciting it is? No stupid rules or limited target area!"

"Now sabre. It's ok, a little too fast paced for my liking"."

"Oi! Here come's foil. What a stupid weapon! They have these stupid rules and a stupid limited target area! How ridiculous is that? Foil is stupid. Foilists are stupid."

"So? What do you think? Make sure to be objective when you tell me how stupid foil is..."

[esskreemr]

The rules for American football are actually quite complicated, but people grow up watching football so it doesn't seem so coplicated to them.

Yes. This is true. The rules of every sport are very complicated. For the most part, most viewers don't HAVE to understand the rules to enjoy the sport.

Perhaps in foil (and sabre) the target area should be more clearly delineated. A dark border. That's one "dumbing" down of the sport I would consider. Right of Way isn't as complicated as most people believe", the principle is actually very easy to understand. Look at the myriad of rules that govern who is an eligible reciever, etc. Take a look at gymnastics, can you score a routine? If we approach it from the angle of, well this is REALLY complicated, I don't expect you to understand, we're going to get blank looks. If we start with well, it's actually pretty easy, they aren't going to understand it 100% but they will understand enough to watch and will pick up some of the nuances with each point scored. I believe there is still a lingering elitist attitude concerning fencing that sums up to be "Fencing is too complicated for ordinary people to understand", this mindset is unfortunate and, IMHO, is the true problem that needs to be addressed.

[mrbiggs]

Yes. This is true. The rules of every sport are very complicated. For the most part, most viewers don't HAVE to understand the rules to enjoy the sport.

Perhaps in foil (and sabre) the target area should be more clearly delineated. A dark border. That's one "dumbing" down of the sport I would consider. Right of Way isn't as complicated as most people believe", the principle is actually very easy to understand. Look at the myriad of rules that govern who is an eligible reciever, etc. Take a look at gymnastics, can you score a routine? If we approach it from the angle of, well this is REALLY complicated, I don't expect you to understand, we're going to get blank looks. If we start with well, it's actually pretty easy, they aren't going to understand it 100% but they will understand enough to watch and will pick up some of the nuances with each point scored. I believe there is still a lingering elitist attitude concerning fencing that sums up to be "Fencing is too complicated for ordinary people to understand", this mindset is unfortunate and, IMHO, is the true problem that needs to be addressed.

I think that something that would be beneficial is a standard set of vocabulary that commentators could use for non-fencers. "Smart was more agressive, and got the touch," or "Tiomkin's attack was blocked, so he did not get the touch." Easy-to-understand vocabulary could go a long way to making fencing easier to watch.

As for the target area, the rules could be changed to allow black lamés. I've always thought they look cool, anyway...

[glowstix]

There is no possible way you can give an objective definition of sport that you can get everyone to agree with. It is completely impossible. You'd have an easier time getting people to agree on whether life begins at conception or birth.

Why? Because everyone has their own idea what activities are sports and what aren't, and if the definition you propose admits things thay think aren't sports, or doesn't admit things they think are sports, they'll reject your definition.

I'd like to hear what you think is an acceptable objective definition to everyone.

what i would like to know is what's so important about an activity being labeled as a sport?? i also play golf and the jury is out as to whether or not its a sport or not. personally i don't care. its still pretty damn tough and still requires ridiculous skills to play well. if all of a sudden people decided that fencing was no longer a "sport" would you stop fencing??

back to topic now..

[fluidfencer]

I sent a letter today. Thanks for the link.

This is a little Monty Python right here. Everyone's talking about how bad the programming on ESPN is and how it should change, but has anyone (besides Craig) sent off a letter or email? ESPN is, first and formost, a sports ENTERTAINMENT organization based on ratings. People are watching poker in droves right now, so they get a big hunk of programming so sponsors can shovel ads at them during the breaks.

Until ESPN realizes that a large number of people are interested in fencing and will watch it, they will not consider presenting it.

Write ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/sitetools/...ct/espntv.html) and tell them you want fencing coverage!

Thanks.

[Gav]

You don't suppose a bit of researcher's bias could have entered the "study", do you?
etc etc

Actually no.

I was sitting downloading the streams. Because I was a sitting with the video in one corner it was always one. I usually sit with headphones on and people would just gather and watch.

Whether people believe me or not is not my problem. And BTW if I would appear to be biased against anything it would be Sabre. The cliches are so much fun to spread ...

"Look at the Fencing Daleks!"
"Wow! I don't think they know what happened either. Looks like they were fencing for a moment."
"Behold! The bacofoil fencer!"
"Why have they stopped? Because one of them has 8 points and now it's time for a cup of tea and a bun."

Anyway, they liked the Sabre. They didn't like Foil OR Epee very much.

I'm going to remember that last one for next time I introduce fencing to people. Nothing like a bit of statistical weighting when you are trying to get your points across.

[Schiavona]

If there was someone who could explain right-of-way in simple terms, then I could imagine people actually watching fencing on tv.

Try this; ROW is like having the serve in tennis, except it changes sides very fast.

[fencingmetalfan]

what i would like to know is what's so important about an activity being labeled as a sport?? i also play golf and the jury is out as to whether or not its a sport or not. personally i don't care. its still pretty damn tough and still requires ridiculous skills to play well. if all of a sudden people decided that fencing was no longer a "sport" would you stop fencing??

You're damn right about golf. I just took it up... don't know if I'll ever get good at it.