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ReverseLunge · 07-02-2005, 04:17 AM

You go for his foot and he accidentally steps on your blade trying to avoid getting hit and at the same time he counters and scores a touch on you. When the director calls halt his foot is still stepping on your blade. Is the touch good or not?

Pauli · 07-02-2005, 08:06 AM

At a comp this is exactly what happened to me and yes, the touch is good.
I was disappointed....but.....I had to have been told too that even the shoe soles count as body part. Therefore it was a valid touché.

lefty_monster · 07-02-2005, 10:48 AM

Darn! I wish stepping on the blade was illegal. I mean, i know it's accidental, but they still use it to score on you. The touch should be annulled.

***Craig*** · 07-02-2005, 11:01 AM

Pauli - RL is asking the reverse:

He attacks, his blade gets stepped on (preventing any kind of remise let's say) and he gets hit w/the counter.

I'm not sure what the ruling is. Any FOC member care to email me this one or weigh in?

Craig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

At a comp this is exactly what happened to me and yes, the touch is good.
I was disappointed....but.....I had to have been told too that even the shoe soles count as body part. Therefore it was a valid touché.

broncofencer · 07-02-2005, 03:44 PM

I would think it would fall under the rules for trapping the opponents blade. Just like if your opponent was to grab the weapon with their back hand accidentally. But this is just a guess

Pauli · 07-02-2005, 03:48 PM

Re-reading RL's post, yes, indeed, I did missunderstand...
Sorry, RL....
Curious to read the reply.

noodle · 07-02-2005, 04:29 PM

this kind of depends, i believe. i can kind of read the situation two ways:

one - i lunge for the foot, miss, the guy counters, steps on my blade and hits pretty much at the same time. his touch.

two- i lunge for the foot, miss, the guy moves his foot, steps on my blade, has it trapped, then hits. i'm pretty sure the director should halt the action upon the siezing of the blade. no touch.

don't quote me on that, though. thats just what i think and would like to get a higher up's opinion, also.

telkanuru · 07-02-2005, 06:59 PM

If you call a halt (fencer unable to effectively use weapon), and the counter/riposte is immidiate, the hit is still valid.

VELISARIOS · 07-04-2005, 11:02 AM

When I did this (I step the blade and I touch him), the director said 'halt' and then we start again no touch count. But when I search the matter the touch must counted.

mrbiggs · 07-05-2005, 01:20 AM

Is it called like RoW? As in, if the defender's action was started before the halt, it counts?

jBirch · 07-05-2005, 10:10 AM

I think it's ok. There are no rules about "capturing" an opponent's blade with anything but the off-hand. Since the foot is nowhere near an off-hand, the touch stands. But I'm not an FOC ref.

James.

grotto · 07-05-2005, 10:59 AM

this, much like the armpit parry, happens occasionally and if it is "in time" will most likely count.

Roach · 07-10-2005, 12:40 AM

Having seen this happen once in competition, the touch was allowed, and the fencer who complained about having his blade stuck was told simply, "well don't put it down there then".

KD5MDK · 07-10-2005, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Is it called like RoW? As in, if the defender's action was started before the halt, it counts?

The argument would be more like it's the same situation as going off strip.

Personally, I think 90% of the time the touch will be allowed, unless there's clearly deliberate action by the stepping fencer, and they pause before they touch.

ReverseLunge · 07-10-2005, 01:25 AM

I think it is probably the same as when you disarm your opponent with a beat attack. If you can hit within the same action then touch is good.

Be_Like_Water · 07-22-2005, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

You go for his foot and he accidentally steps on your blade trying to avoid getting hit and at the same time he counters and scores a touch on you. When the director calls halt his foot is still stepping on your blade. Is the touch good or not?

Unfortunately this situation seems to slip through the cracks of USFA rules, and yes, the touch is good. Cannot wait until the USFA addresses it with a rule making it illegal to immobilize an opponent's weapon with the foot, and subsequently adds 150 amendments that include other body parts (one for each individual toe, one for the arch, one for the heal....etc.)

downunder · 07-22-2005, 03:25 AM

its fairly clear.

If the counterattack had started before the blade was stepped on, then the hit would be valid.

If he steps on the blade, then counterattacks, then there is no hit as the referee has called halt for the blade being trapped.

It can't be "the same time". One has to happen before the other. If there is doubt in the hit, annul it.

ReverseLunge · 07-22-2005, 04:01 AM

I don't dont see why it cant be at the same time. Lets say A and B attack together. A grabs B's blade as he hits.