Women's Section

[Inquartata]

Yes. Because after all, why would you just try to outfence them? Better to find some other way of winning...

How about spiking their water with an hallucinogen?

[Fencergrl]

Yes and other tried and true fencing techniques such as yelling, beating, stamping your feet etc... exist to put your opponent at ease... what was I thinking!

[Gav]

At the risk of being branded a sexist (judging from some responses I've seen just being in opposition makes you somehow 'sexist') I have to ask "why"? What Fencing-related issues are there for female fencers that do not apply to men? Come on this is the 21st century and that means equality; which means being equal; and that means standing on your own two feet, or getting support from men (depending). I've read through some of the comments on this thread and been mildly offended. It seems it's ok to poke fun at men yet it is somehow wrong to return the ... compliment?

[Peach]

Gav--although I do not really think a women's section is needed, and I agree with you that a negative attitude is uncalled for, I have to say that in regular threads I often am mildly (sometimes more than mildly) offended by remarks about women, and saddened that it seems okay to poke fun at women but it's wrong to return the compliment. Perhaps you don't notice those comments, which is understandable, but you might consider why you don't notice them until the polarity is reversed.

That pointed out, as I've already said, I'm not comfortable with negative generalizations about either sex and I don't think counter-attacks serve any remedial purpose (though of course, I'm a sabre fencer).

[Fencergrl]

Gav... I find it interesting that the men who comment about the woman's section assume it's intention is to talk about men or be negative about them.

Generally, I don't see a lot of women on this site being negative about men. In fact, most of us seem to enjoy the male gender. I have seen however, a little "women bashing" by the men in the "I hate women thread". Although this went on for a few posts, I can't recall one woman who made a big deal out of it. We just let it run it's course.

Yes, some of us will poke fun at men. Some of the people (such as Goofy) are men poking fun at themselves. If this is offensive, then it is best it has it's own area of the forum. If it gets out of hand, by all means close the section. Making fun of men however isn't the intention of the section.

Equality doesn't mean we are the same. I see the section simply as a place for women (and men if interested) to gather and discuss issues that are specific to our gender and our sport.

For instance, some women new to fencing have difficulty hitting another person. I have never seen this with guys. I would think if a newcomer posted a question like this in the "Women's Section" she would get more women responding than perhaps in the fencing discussion area.

One could argue it belongs in the fencing discussion section, as this is where most people have posted it in the past. However, since it is something that I have only seen affect women, I see it as a woman's issue as well as a fencing issue.

The key here is not to exclude men, but to have a predominately female group of fencers that participate in a section. I see this section as a good resource for coaches. In fact, I got the idea for the section when a male coach approached a group of women on the site asking for help with a female student.

If someone wants to talk to an armourer about their equipment, they go to the armoury section. If someone wants a female point of view or understanding to a problem, then it would be nice to have a woman's section. That's all we're asking for here is a place to gather.

[CheekyCanuck]

Originally Posted by Gav

At the risk of being branded a sexist (judging from some responses I've seen just being in opposition makes you somehow 'sexist') I have to ask "why"? What Fencing-related issues are there for female fencers that do not apply to men? Come on this is the 21st century and that means equality; which means being equal; and that means standing on your own two feet, or getting support from men (depending). I've read through some of the comments on this thread and been mildly offended. It seems it's ok to poke fun at men yet it is somehow wrong to return the ... compliment?

Actually I found that a lot of the comments in this thread made fun of both genders and none of it was mean hearted.

I do agree with Fencergrl for what it's worth. You seem to want us to list out as many issues as we could think of to support the need or desire. I think Fencergrl has given a good start. As far as this being the 21st century and having equality, that still remains to be seen and better people than you and I have argued out this issue.
As another highlight of inequity; there is a rumor that there will not be a women's team foil event in the Olympics. (Foil jokes aside please) I do find it interesting that both the men's and women's team foil were not removed, but just the women’s. Is this equity? This would seem another issue to discus, if there were a women's section.

[Fencergrl]

I felt the same way Cheeky about women not being equally represented in the Olympic Fencing and in sports in general. There are very few opportunities for women to play sports professionally compared to men.

I was very disappointed as a young girl to realize that while my brothers could reach an elite level if their talents allowed them to; I was unable to simply because those opportunities didn't exist for women (and still don't to a large extent).

[CheekyCanuck]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

I felt the same way Cheeky about women not being equally represented in the Olympic Fencing and in sports in general. There are very few opportunities for women to play sports professionally compared to men.

I was very disappointed as a young girl to realize that while my brothers could reach an elite level if their talents allowed them to; I was unable to simply because those opportunities didn't exist for women (and still don't to a large extent).

The main focus in almost all sporting events is on the men's teams and male athletes. Though there may be some exceptions, this holds true more than not. And this is not an attack on the men, but just an observation.

I have talked to a lot of men about equality in general and I must say most of them actually believe that there is equality between the sexes and just as Gav thinks he will be labeled as "sexist", I too think I will be labeled as a "feminist", but I have to say that the equity is not there.
We've come a long way, but there are far more issues unaccounted for and to ask a man if he thinks that there is equity is like asking a bully if he thinks he is a bully. I don't mean this as an offense or an attack and I am not saying that men are all sexist or anything of the kind, but I am just using that expression to illustrate my point.
My point is that as a man your perceptions will be only from that perspective. Those very same men that I have talked to about equality would say the same as Gav, that there is equity, but when confronted with examples they are surprised.
The thing that surprises me is that it is not only men, but also some women who see things as equal.

This is not meant as a complaint and I am not trying to lay the blame on men. Our society as a whole continues to support this in many forms and not just against women. This is not a bashing of men, but merely an observation of how I see the world from my viewpoint (as a woman) and I know that most women would agree.

Why not have a board for different races, religions etc, you might ask. It is simple, women are 50% of the population everywhere, in every town, city and country. It is simple statistics to do what you can for the majority.

Garrggghhh. I didn't want to debate this and I've blabbed on about it too long.

Gav: Do what you will.
Fencergrl: You go girl!

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

Gav... I find it interesting that the men who comment about the woman's section assume it's intention is to talk about men or be negative about them.

Actually my gripe is based entirely on this thread and some other comments I've seen on this website. And it's interesting that women do not see how bandyig around gender stereotypes cannot be offensive to men.

Generally, I don't see a lot of women on this site being negative about men. In fact, most of us seem to enjoy the male gender. I have seen however, a little "women bashing" by the men in the "I hate women thread". Although this went on for a few posts, I can't recall one woman who made a big deal out of it. We just let it run it's course.

It's the constant "men are stupid" comments. As for the "I hate women thread" I believe that was dealt with effectively at the time ... by the female members and that was fine by me.

Yes, some of us will poke fun at men. Some of the people (such as Goofy) are men poking fun at themselves. If this is offensive, then it is best it has it's own area of the forum. If it gets out of hand, by all means close the section. Making fun of men however isn't the intention of the section.

I never said it was, but I am reacting to what I see going on here and amongst the girls in general.

Equality doesn't mean we are the same. I see the section simply as a place for women (and men if interested) to gather and discuss issues that are specific to our gender and our sport.

For instance, some women new to fencing have difficulty hitting another person. I have never seen this with guys. I would think if a newcomer posted a question like this in the "Women's Section" she would get more women responding than perhaps in the fencing discussion area.

Actually equality should. If you want equality you should be prepared to be treated equally. I dislike male chauvinism and by contrast, dislikefemale chauvinists just as much.

And it's complete rubbish that there are men no out there who have trouble hitting others. That's another idiotic gender stereotype. I have seen it with guys, mostly boys, but it is not as uncommon as you seem to think. Do you think that person should feel stigmatised because somehow this is a 'female-only' issue?

The key here is not to exclude men, but to have a predominately female group of fencers that participate in a section. I see this section as a good resource for coaches. In fact, I got the idea for the section when a male coach approached a group of women on the site asking for help with a female student.

If someone wants to talk to an armourer about their equipment, they go to the armoury section. If someone wants a female point of view or understanding to a problem, then it would be nice to have a woman's section. That's all we're asking for here is a place to gather.

And I am still to be convinced that there is any need for a woman specific section. If someone is getting [what we Scots call] a slagging because somehow they are asking a 'girly' question then report it and we deal with it. I've had to defend quite a few people's right to ask as many questions as often as they want in the past - and that was an unpopular choice.

My original response was intended to be light hearted. I do not want to make a huge issue out of this. I don't see the point. In terms of exchanges I think that women give as good as they get.

As for the Foil thing. The correct answer is that ALL weapons should be present at ALL times. Nothing more and nothing less.

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by Gav

And it's complete rubbish that there are men no out there who have trouble hitting others. That's another idiotic gender stereotype. I have seen it with guys, mostly boys, but it is not as uncommon as you seem to think. Do you think that person should feel stigmatised because somehow this is a 'female-only' issue?

Your comment "Idiotic gender sterotype" seems a little harsh as all I said was I have only seen this with women. I have have found young boys seem to enjoy hitting each other and others. You have obviously seen something different.

I was also unaware that there are any young boys on this site that would feel stigmatised that I consider this to be a female issue due to my observations. My impression is that most people are adults or teenagers. I aplogize to anybody who I might have offended by stating my observation. I have only seen women mention this issue on the site and combined with my observations assumed it was an issue to pertained mainly to women.

Gav, it seems that you see women and men as the same, I see them as equals but different.... For this reason I would like a women's section, you don't see it as necessary. I just don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this.

Frankly I'm tired of justifying my suggestion to have a Women's section. Do it, don't do it... I was only trying to make a suggestion that I felt would improve the forum (as with all my suggestions). If you and/or Craig disagree with the need... so be it.

[esskreemr]

I have mixed feelings about this. I can see both sides of the arguments.

If it's useful, why not? Regardless of how diligent the mods are, there will always be posts that make it through the "filter" when serious subjects are concerned. In addition, there may be questions that don't get asked or answered because of the replies it might bring. I've seen chauvinistic remarks on this board that range from tongue-in-cheek banter to downright offensive neanderthal-like comments.

On the otherhand, how useful would such a section be? Is it going to end up being a private message board for 5-6 women with two or three posts a week/month? If so, it doesn't justify its own section. In addition, how can equality be reached if we continue to segregate and label everyone?

Just my thoughts.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

Yes and other tried and true fencing techniques such as yelling, beating, stamping your feet etc... exist to put your opponent at ease... what was I thinking!

Yeah, I decry all of those, too...

I may be the only completely dignified sabre fencer in the world.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Yeah, I decry all of those, too...

I may be the only completely dignified sabre fencer in the world.

But we like you anyway . . .

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Peach

But we like you anyway . . .

Professional help may be indicated.

[Fencergrl]

I am curious if any other women have found that men flirt/check them out etc... more during some parts of their cycle more than others.

I have always found that men show more of an interest when I'm ovulating. Has anyone else noticed this?

As this is the only time a woman is fertile, it makes sense that we would have a "heat" cycle like other animals.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

I have always found that men show more of an interest when I'm ovulating. Has anyone else noticed this?

I've noticed this, but from the other side.

[VorpalCat]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

I've noticed this, but from the other side.

I'm quietly creeped out by Mr Epee admitting that he's noticed women checking him out more when he's ovulating............

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

I've noticed this, but from the other side.

Yeah... I'm much more interested in being "friendly" when I'm ovulating (and just before) as well as about 1/2 day before my period starts, then just before it ends I can tell because it happens again.

Men tend to respond strongest during ovulation. If most women feel more sexual, and men respond to both their behaviour and their pheromones, then this would be for lack of a better term we go into a “heat” like other animals. Rather than it being seasonal, it is monthly.

Something else quite interesting.... my husband is older than I and going through andropause. He's always had high testosterone levels. When they dropped off he really struggled with lack of energy, sex drive, muscle tone. He was tired and found it hard to focus, lost interest in work and hobbies. He got a prescription for testosterone cream. What a difference!

Oddly enough one of the weird side effects is the effect it has on women. Okay… I responded right away… but we just chalked it up to my natural friendliness towards him. But he noticed other women flirting with him (again, as this was something else that tapered off as he went through andropause).

I watched someone the other night, who hasn't seen him since he started with the HRT. They were standing close, as he was showing her something, and she started flirting! So this wasn't just his perception…. Fortunately, I’m one of these odd women that consider it a compliment to my taste in men when women flirt with my guy.

I wonder if my husband’s success with women (prior to our marriage) was largely to do with his higher than average testosterone level?