2005-2006 USFA season - where are the NACs

[oiuyt]

Basically this would allow a Div IA NAC to be the next development step... for those fencers with As and Bs who aren't ready to play with the top level folks (points list people).

Another solution would be to have them award points but on a lower scale, similar to the way satellite world cups do compared to normal world cups or grand prixs (prixes?).

The results from some of these events have even made the pages of American Fencing.

Then again, in the most recent Amer. Fen. issue, there were results from some open events in Minnesota, which were rediculously small/weak (an open where the winner earned a new E because there were 6 fencers and the winner didn't already have one (or at least didn't have a current-year E). I wouldn't might getting results from DitD or other similar events in our national magazine, but weak 6-person events? Give me a break.

Can't do Div II any more, am almost certain to get waxed in Div I.

But there are only so many sub-divisions that we want/need. It's not unreasonable to lump A/B fencers together. Your rating (current year B in MS) means that there are only ~50 people in your weapon in the country with a higher classification (roughly 50 MS A's (that's a bit dated it might have drifted up a bit recently)). Granted there are a number of people that you're tied with (or ahead of) with national points, who could be considered ahead of you. Of the 24,000 USFA members about 16,000 are male, so that puts you somewhere in the 50-100 range out of 16,000. You're in the 99th percentile of MS in the country, you SHOULD be expected to be fencing in the top level events.

-B :)

[Inquartata]

But Brad, I'm OLD.

[TrojanMD]

Inq -

I thought Vets events were quite well represented on the National Schedule for next season.



It would be nice to have an up-to-date list of just the major Sectional events around the country, like DitD, Cresent, LBI, etc - even on FRED, I have problems telling what's huge and what's not. A circuit of these events might even address the complaints people having traveling to less.. entertaining places for NACs.

[Inquartata]

Hey, haven't you heard that it's impolite to taunt your elders?

[Babs the Cat]

Anyone care to list the premier open events, and their dates?

If anyone could do this, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Babs the Cat]

It would be nice to have an up-to-date list of just the major Sectional events around the country, like DitD, Cresent, LBI, etc - even on FRED, I have problems telling what's huge and what's not. A circuit of these events might even address the complaints people having traveling to less.. entertaining places for NACs.

Don't you have to be a fencer within a given section to participate in those Sectionals?


This whole thing is very confusing for those of us who are in a "dead" division, with very little going on, but who want to compete at a more-than-just-recreational level.

I want to go to as many competitions as possible, but I have a hard time even finding tournaments with enough fencers to earn a rating, much less provide a way to qualify for anything.

What would you recommend for an unrated, but decent fencer that wants to compete as much as possible?

[DHCJr]

None of these tournaments restrict because of location. Tournaments like Duel and LBI get a large portion from outside the section and a few from outside the country.

[TrojanMD]

Don't you have to be a fencer within a given section to participate in those Sectionals?

My apologies - I used my slang term for tournaments that are bigger than your average (or even about average) division meet. (in most divisions - I know some are capable of producing quite well attended meets)

Section Qualifiers to Nationals are naturally restricted.

[KD5MDK]

And usually not as big.

[oiuyt]

USFA has now posted the NAC Entry Form, which includes the locations that they've signed contracts with so far.

Houston (Jan), Denver (March), and Atlanta (July) don't yet have signed contracts.

-B :)

[mfp]

USFA has now posted the NAC Entry Form, which includes the locations that they've signed contracts with so far.

Next season's NAC entry form appears to imply Vet NAC events will be age segregated into separate Vet, Vet-50, Vet-60+ events. When was this discussed, decided and approved and by whom? Not that I think it's a bad idea, I'm just wondering what the process was and why some of us hadn't heard about the changes until after the fact.

Also is it intended (and will it be scheduled) so that the 50+ and 60+ year old kids will be able to play in the "Vet" event as well if they so choose?

Will Vet50 and Vet60+ ranking points be awarded now only for placements in the age segregated events?

[Peach]

This was discussed by the Veterans Committee, which has open meetings at a couple of a national events a year, and then worked out with the USFA national office. An ongoing and often intense topic of conversation at the committee meetings has been the point system used to qualify teams for the Veteran World Championships. Since two of the three qualifying events were fenced mixed and carried stronger points than the age group events, an over-50 or over-60 fencer could fail to make the team because of being knocked out early by a 40-49 fencer, but there was less incentive to fence the age group championships in Summer Nationals because the stronger NAC points meant a fencer could be a "lock" by then.

The new system is the current compromise. It should (a) provide strong events for all veterans, including the "younger" ones (b) provide a fairer method of selecting national teams for the 50-59 category and the 60+ category (c) provide more fencing for the older veterans, who otherwise might have to travel for one very small event.

The "open" veteran event will open to fencers over 40, including the 50-59 and 60+ fencers. The age group events will award team points.

I'm not sure how the "combined" points will be handled, and I'll check.

Warning: The following is off the top of my head and is NOT policy: It would make sense to have rolling combined point standings for seeding into the combined event, but since there is no 40-49 team these standings should not matter otherwise. I don't know if the age group point standings would apply for seeding into pools. In many events, many of the top spots of the combined 40+ point standings have been occupied by 50-59 fencers because they have such an incentive to do well, but unless an older fencer chooses to skip the combined event I don't think that should affect seeding.

I'm happy. At one NAC, a 40-49 fencer who went on to win knocked me out and then knocked out two other 50-59 team candidates in a row, resulting in a rather odd distribution of points.

[Goofy]

I've also heard that splitting the Vet categories into 40-49, 50-59, and 60+ will bring the USFA more in line with the international designations. There are rumors that the Veteran World Championships will include 40-49 in the next couple of years.

[Goofy]

I've heard rumors that dividing the Veterans NACs are partly in preparation for a 40-49 Veterans World Championships in the next couple of years.....

[Peach]

I've heard rumors that dividing the Veterans NACs are partly in preparation for a 40-49 Veterans World Championships in the next couple of years.....

No, that wasn't the reason. I would have heard if the FIE had budged on that idea.

[mfp]

This was discussed by the Veterans Committee, which has open meetings at a couple of a national events a year, and then worked out with the USFA national office. An ongoing and often intense topic of conversation at the committee meetings has been the point system used to qualify teams for the Veteran World Championships. Since two of the three qualifying events were fenced mixed and carried stronger points than the age group events, an over-50 or over-60 fencer could fail to make the team because of being knocked out early by a 40-49 fencer, but there was less incentive to fence the age group championships in Summer Nationals because the stronger NAC points meant a fencer could be a "lock" by then.

It would seem if the 50s and 60s can't get any points that count toward team standings out of the combined event, then some would have less of an incentive to fence the combined event. ...

Another approach could be, all vet events, whether combined or age bracketed, give out the same max points using the same scale. Then the (for example) Vet 50s could choose to fence up to 6 vet events with the best N being used for standing purposes. That could encourage those seeking places on the team to fence more, which is probably a good thing. But whatever ...

Anyway, if only results in the Vet50 (and not combined) type events will now count towards Vet-50 team selection, then the USFA needs to do a better job of getting out the word that many 49 year old fencers can compete in the Vet50 events or else those fencers won't know to register for "50s" NAC events. This year, for example, some 49 year olds didn't find out they were supposed to fence in the vet50 championship events until shortly before registration for summer nationals closed. And one, who's still 49 today, made a Vet-50 team. (He'll turn 50 later this month.)

Sensible scheduling for the Dec NAC would place DivI, Vet combined and Vet50/Vet60 on three separate days for each weapon/gender combination. I wonder if that will happen of if some Vet age/weapon/gender group will get zinged by some sort of scheduling conflict.

[Peach]

It would seem if the 50s and 60s can't get any points that count toward team standings out of the combined event, then some would have less of an incentive to fence the combined event. ...

Yeah, but the vets events are FUN. We like fencing in as many as we can. I think this change may have been partly inspired by Bill Hall's proposal for veteran-only NACs, which appealed to many people but logistically was difficult for the USFA to accept. It was great that they were willing to add the age group events, and an indicator of how competitive the team qualification has become and how the importance of the Veteran Championships has grown.

Another approach could be, all vet events, whether combined or age bracketed, give out the same max points using the same scale.

I'm sure that and various other suggestions will come up at the next Veterans Committee meeting -- why not attend and suggest it? (it's usually at one of the Veteran NACs) I suspect some fencers will obect to having to fence both the combined and the age-group in order to ensure they make the team, while others of us who are willing to expend time, money, and effort and risk overuse injury will rub our hands and smirk happily.

The USFA needs to do a better job of getting out the word that many 49 year old fencers can compete in the Vet50 events or else those fencers won't know to register for "50s" NAC events.

As a mom of a fencer and a fencer myself, I've always noticed that responsibility seems to belong to the fencer rather than to the USFA. Though they do post it on the website, I usually have to chase it down through the "Operations Manual" page and then I have to ask someone. The cutoff changes from year to year based on the date of the championships.

Sensible scheduling for the Dec NAC would place DivI, Vet combined and Vet50/Vet60 on three separate days for each weapon/gender combination.

That would certainly be nice. I would suspect some of us won't be so lucky. The USFA quite rightly considers the Div I a point event which should be distinct from the Veteran point events, as even those of us who are eligible to fence both are unlikely to be in contention for both.

[schlager7]

Just FWIW here is a press release from the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority. It's the most current word I've got on our NAC:

[b]FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

August 1, 2005

DIVISION I / JUNIOR NORTH AMERICAN CUP HOUSTON

The Harris County-Houston Sports Authority has been awarded the bid for the Division I /Junior North American Cup (NAC) by the United States Fencing Association. The event will be held at the George R. Brown Convention Center in downtown Houston, January 13th and 16th, 2006.

“The North American Cup is the biggest fencing event Houston has ever hosted. The NAC will attract the elite fencers from the United States, Canada and Mexico. Along with the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority, which will serve as the local organizing committee, this will be an event with which all local clubs will be committed. ”
Marty Wysocki
Local Organizing Committee Chairman
(office 713-577-2047)

“The NAC comes at the heels of the highly successful 2005 NCAA Fencing Championships and solidifies Houston as a center for great fencing,” said CEO of the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority, Oliver Luck. “With the 2006 NAC and the 2005 NCAA’s in Houston, we anticipate the NAC will give the sport of fencing a tremendous boost in the area.”

What: 2006 Division I Juniors North American Cup

When: January 13th and 16th,2006

Where: George R. Brown Convention Center
3rd floor Halls F and G 1001
Avenue De Las Americas
PO Box 61469
Houston, TX 77010
713-853-8000

Who: The Division I/Junior NAC will attract the top men and women fencers from all areas of North America. The Junior Division is made up of men and women 19 and under. The Division I group is comprised of men and women with an A and B national letter ranking. Both the Junior and Division I competitions will include: epee, foil and saber. Current and future Olympians will be competing for their respective division titles.

FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

Markus Ortiz, 832.867.1953 (work)[/]

[mrbiggs]

The Division I group is comprised of men and women with an A and B national letter ranking.

You need a B to compete in Division 1?

[Inquartata]

The new system is the current compromise. It should (a) provide strong events for all veterans, including the "younger" ones (b) provide a fairer method of selecting national teams for the 50-59 category and the 60+ category (c) provide more fencing for the older veterans, who otherwise might have to travel for one very small event.

The "open" veteran event will open to fencers over 40, including the 50-59 and 60+ fencers. The age group events will award team points.

How will ratings be handled? If the new scheme results in smaller events, the ratings which can be awarded will be similarly attenuated, no? Will they be implementing a minimum event rating, as is the case for Div II and III, for instance?