hand speed

[bikeman]

Do any of you have any drills that improve hand speed?

[DarkTransient]

m... I don't know. For some reason I find this topic very naughty.

[Matt_Bailey]

Eh, try going through your normal fencing motions with something somewhat heavier...like a broomstick.
Cheers,
Matt

[attila]

Hey Bikeman.

I firmly believe you are born with all the hand speed you are ever gonna have. So I work more on maximizing the determination of WHEN the attack is developing and preparing the attack into/counter/or riposte once you figure outr that it is going to come. So when you fence someone at the club, give up a few hits and see if you can SEE a pattern or something right before they ATTACK. Then formulate a solution given their choice of attack. It may take a while, but work on it.

[arcon]

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: arcon ]

[micromarty]

I don't think hand speed is the issue. Fencing develops better hand-eye coordination and faster reaction time. Over time your reflexes naturally will get faster.

As far as drills go, I practice the fencing equivalent of a "quick draw"... call me a gun fighter if you will!

Marty

[Peach]

I've improved my hand speed primarily by relaxing my shoulder. I work on that mostly during bouting, though I also do weight work - lunges with a two-five pound weight in my hand and "walking" my blade up and down grasping alternately with my thumb and forefinger and my guide fingers and palm. Increased strength allows me to be more relaxed.

Technically speaking I don't believe you can improve your reaction time, that's hard-wired. What you can do is reduce the number of things you do which interfere with your speed--locking your shoulder, pulling back, sticking out your elbow, etc.

You can also make certain combinations of actions (parry-riposte sequences, for instance) automatic, which isn't actually improving either your reaction time or your hand speed, but taking the thought out of your actions. That's vulnerable to a savvy opponent who realizes they're automatic.

I've had good results with that just doing the actions over and over, with or without weapon in hand but in on-guard position. Do a hundred repetitions of a four-parry-riposte when you're waiting for a bus, for instance.

[damianip]

Couple of comments:

For once, Attila, I disagree. I believe that you can improve hand speed. Training certainly helps. In my younger days, I was a hockey goaltender, and I know that over time, my handspeed improved (probably due to several things but largely due to better conditioning in the arms and shoulders).

I don't disgree that improvement in anticipation skills yields an effective increase in reaction time.

One drill I've been doing lately is lunges while holding a 4 pound medicine ball in my weapon hand. This had certainly helped improve the condition of of my weapon arm. It also forces me to relax with the palm up (don't drop the ball!), and helps develop a "quiet" the upper body during the lunge. I still get fatigued after about three hours of épée, but it's improving.

I agree with Peach that relaxation in the shoulder is a BIG factor. My son's coach is constantly after him to relax his shoulder.

I also do "shadow" bladework. I'm not sure that it has helped, but, now, people who had previously only thought I was nuts are now sure of it.

Paolo

[chilli]

Speed comes with the body knowing where to be, training the motions into the system so the muscles are on auto-pilot. Then it's all down to your reaction times.

It doesn't hurt to work on strength and flexibility of the wrist. I like to use one of those squeezey-vice things. Doing reps whilst trying to type with the other hand improves dexterity as well.
I also do an exercise I call the "Marceau". Close into a fist, flex the wrist up so that the hand is at as close to a 90* angle as you can do. Then curl the fingers up, unbending just the first knuckles, then fully open the hand. If you do this quickly, it looks like you are performing that "trapped in a box" pantomime thing. DO THEM SLOW, it takes more muscle control. Benefit comes with a high amount of reps, say like 50. Good Luck.

[thebigriddle]

I just had this discussion with the gymnastic coach he says there are ways to improve you reaction timing. I know what there are games such as a slapping the hands and catch the coin. Or better yet, the glove over the head game. But some people do have better reaction time. Learning to relax the arm and shoulder. A good drill extend the arm while shaking the hand at the wrist in a very loose way and then come back to guard. Learn to reach and touch using just the hand.

[Stryder]

That reminds me of a drill an english coach once showed me.

Fencer en guard, coach stands sideways in front of the fencer facing across the strip and holding a glove up with each hand.
Position the gloves so that when one is released, the fencer can catch it by moving only his hand. When the other is released, the fencer must extend and do a short lunge to catch it before it touches the ground.

This drill improves reaction time but it also enforces the habit of extending prior to lunging.
When either glove is dropped, the fencer must extend. Sometimes he must lunge as well.

------------------
www.geocities.com/strydermike

[Chris Nauroth]

How do you know your shoulder is relaxed? When I've got my arm retracted (like in a parry position) that muscle on top of my shoulder (deltoid?) feels pretty loose. When I extend for an attack, the muscle feels hard. Is this bad? And why would it be bad?

[attila]

Hi Guys

It is ok to disagree. I firmly believe that the speed of your hand stays the same. But you can improve overall reaction time to the game by cleaning up your lines and becoming more efficient. The best fencers make it look so easy because they take the cleanest lines with the best possible hand and foot movements. But that is through years of refinement of hand/eye/foot co-ordination. Plus the fastest reactions come from the brains ability to decipher an action and solve the problem and then execute an answer. So the sooner you make a "clear"decision the faster you go.

[neevel]

Chris--

The deltiod will feel harder because its contraction is what extends your shoulder-- the thing is not to make it any tighter than it needs to be, and not to force any other muscles in you arm tight. Basically, the extension should feel like a reaching motion, not a punching motion-- power for the lunge comes from the back leg, not the arm.

With many folks, the root of hand-speed problems is that they're simply holding the weapon too tightly. When you've got an ortho grip in your hand, the thumb and forefinger should be pinching the grip just minimally tightly, and the rest of the fingers should be touching the grip but not exerting any real pressure-- you only squeeze down momentarily when executing parries or other blade actions. When you've got a constantly too-tight hold on the weapon, not only does it tend to cause sympathetic tightening of the other muscles in the arm, but control shift from the fingers (because you can't shift the grip around in the hand) to the wrist, elbow, and ultimately the shoulder, which are progressively much slower than the hand and fingers.

-Dave

[This message has been edited by neevel (edited 04-23-2001).]

[thebigriddle]

Well I agree you must make a commitment to what you are doing. I had to learn that a long time ago. I also find that you commit yourself to your attack the attack is more likely to land. I like reading threads like this.