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Thread: U.S. Summer Nationals 2005

  1. #1
    Din Älskling esskreemr's Avatar
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    U.S. Summer Nationals 2005

    From the USFA confirmed entries page I have 5976 entries across 95 events (I'm horrible with numbers so feel free to check). I believe that's a pretty decent increase over last years. I can't find the historic data on the website. I think it's in the mag though.

    http://www.usfencing.org/Misc/Summer...asp?Sort=Event
    Last edited by esskreemr; 06-27-2005 at 11:40 AM.
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    Senior Member Goofy's Avatar
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    For historic data you would click on Competitions, then Results, and from there go into everything back to 1994-1995.

    And for the 1995 Championships: 34 total events (11 team, 23 individual) with 1690 competitors (188 team, 1502 individual). Quite a bit of growth in 10 years.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member edew's Avatar
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    That's not a valid measure, as the Summer Nationals format did not materialize until the 1997 Summer Nationals. And then, the Div I Nationals were held separately. Maybe compare it to the 2001 Summer Nationals in Sacramento. Same place, same format (included the Div I Nationals, as I remember). I think there were just a little over 5000 entries with about 2000 separate competitors. The Wednesday of that Nationals (the 2001) had a record 1000+ fencers competing at one time. I don't think that record has been broken.
    =)=///

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    Senior Member Frank Pratt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edew
    That's not a valid measure, as the Summer Nationals format did not materialize until the 1997 Summer Nationals. And then, the Div I Nationals were held separately....
    This was also the first year for Div. III National Championships, which added several hundred entries to the tournament as compared to pre-1997 Championships. Before then, there were not nearly as many U, E, and D rated fencers at the Tournament. I imagine the 2003 Div III MF National Championships holds the record (in the U.S., at least,) as the largest single competition with 295 competitors (albeit, this is just an educated guess...)
    Frank Pratt
    Rome Fencing Club; Rome, GA, USA

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    Senior Member edew's Avatar
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    The 295 I think is lower than what was reported, which was greater than 300. Still, while it's the biggest in the US, I think there are some events in Europe that surpass that in single event size. Maybe Veeco or some other euro-knowledged fencers can chime in.
    =)=///

  6. #6
    Senior Member dekko's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly there were 306 or 207 registered for the event but only 295 or so actually checked in for the event.

    Hence the first event bracket of 512 used.

  7. #7
    Senior Member veeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edew
    The 295 I think is lower than what was reported, which was greater than 300. Still, while it's the biggest in the US, I think there are some events in Europe that surpass that in single event size. Maybe Veeco or some other euro-knowledged fencers can chime in.
    I have definitely fenced in national tournaments in men's epee in France where there were more than 300 competitors.

    Here are the results from one such tournament:

    http://www.escrime-info.com/modules/.../EHS_Livry.htm

    This tournament, which will happen in October next year, consistently attracts more than 300 competitors each year, is run on 3 different sites with more than 50 strips, on 2 days. Most fencers on the national French fencing team compete, and in the past 2 years I have seen foreign fencers who were in the top 10 on the senior ME FIE point list attend.
    • Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
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    Senior Member glowstix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veeco
    I have definitely fenced in national tournaments in men's epee in France where there were more than 300 competitors.

    Here are the results from one such tournament:

    http://www.escrime-info.com/modules/.../EHS_Livry.htm

    This tournament, which will happen in October next year, consistently attracts more than 300 competitors each year, is run on 3 different sites with more than 50 strips, on 2 days. Most fencers on the national French fencing team compete, and in the past 2 years I have seen foreign fencers who were in the top 10 on the senior ME FIE point list attend.
    what was the format of that tournament..i can't imagine that its 100% to DE after pools.

  9. #9
    Senior Member veeco's Avatar
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    In fact, it is, on the first day.

    The format for all national tournaments for men's epee (other weapons have other formats) is the following:

    Top 64 fencers from FIE point list are auto-quals for Sunday
    Top 48 fencers from FFE point list are auto-quals for Sunday

    Only the top X fencers are autoquals, this means that if you are 49 in the French point list and someone in the top 48 doesn't show up, you still have to fence on Saturday.

    On saturday, one round of pools, of 6,7, or 8 (depending on the number of strips and fencers present).

    The top 16 fencers from the pools are qualified directly for Sunday. To that list, add the required number of fencers to fill in for those from the top 48 who didn't show up, plus 5 fencers for each foreign fencer in the top 64 of the FIE point list (this is to ensure all pools of 6 on Sunday).

    For example, lets say there were 40 fencers from the top 48 in the FFE that registered for Sunday, and two foreign fencers in the top 64. In this case, 16+8+10 fencers qualify directly after pools.

    Then the remaining fencers from Saturday fence a DE table until there are 32 fencers remaining. Those 32 fencers fence on sunday, with the auto-quals and those qualified from the pools.

    On Sunday, 2 rounds of pools of 6 fencers, with approximately 20% cut at each round:

    First round takes you from whatever number of fencers you have (usually if there are no foreign fencers this is 96) to 78.

    Second round takes you from 78 to 64, and then its a DE table from 64 until the final, no repechage.

    To answer your latent question related to the BoD agenda thread, both the pools on Sunday and Saturday are very competitive, because on Saturday you need to win all your bouts to make it to the second day directly (which can be a huge advantage in terms of seeding into the pools for Sunday and also save some energy from the DE bouts you don't have to fence), and on Sunday because even though you only need to win 2 bouts to make it to the next round, those 2 wins can be really hard to get no matter who's in your pool. Eric Boisse for instance didn't make the cut in the pools in one of our national circuits last season.
    Last edited by veeco; 06-28-2005 at 11:40 AM.
    • Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
    • To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sabresque's Avatar
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    Wow... only 28 in women's sabre. That's going to be a little intense from the start.
    -Sabresque

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    And 6, count them, 6 are from Oregon Fencing Alliance!! Finals should be very interesting.

  12. #12
    Din Älskling esskreemr's Avatar
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    Entries as of June 29, 2005 stands at 6215 across 96 events (my bad in first post). If you count team fencers as individual entries you have 6425 entries.

    Div I Entries: 265
    Div I-a Entries: 475
    Div II Entries: 928
    Div III Entries: 923
    Div I Team Entries: 79 Teams (79 x 4 per team = 316)
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