A view of fencing.net

[Goofy]

Why should elite athletes share their knowledge when all we do is criticize them? Perhaps this is why Fencerontheline's two elite fencer friends have retired from fnet.

To restate an item from other posts in this thread, we are for the most part anonymous in fencing.net. How do we know for certain who is making a point in a thread? If you go back to the original post here the quote is from 'sushiisgood563'- why should anyone treat this person with any special level of respect? Just because someone claims that person is some elite athlete? Think of it this way- someone who has two lessons worth of fencing experience could register in the forum as 'ZAGUNIS' (or some other famous name) and start tossing about 'recommendations' and 'knowledge', so in the end there is just no way to tell who is making a point.

And as for an elite athlete taking offense at their posts being questioned and turning away from the forum? First of all anyone entering an anonymous venue needs to check their ego at the door, and secondly even the best advice in all areas of life is often ignored or ridiculed by those who do not know any better.

As for criticism of performance, I have watched the women's sabre clip referenced here several times. Aside from the smoothness of the actions from the two young ladies the bout is...really...just another five-touch bout. There was nothing truly outstanding, and I believe that has generated the critical posts. The mid-and-lower-level fencer who viewed this clip wanted to see something spectacular and did not. I do not believe we are reading 'criticism', but are instead reading 'disappointment'. People need to take the time to be able to tell the difference.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheCat263

Why should elite athletes share their knowledge when all we do is criticize them? Perhaps this is why Fencerontheline's two elite fencer friends have retired from fnet.

you're still missing the point: WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE!! how am i going to tell soren thompson from joe bloke armchair fencer??!???

[keith]

Originally Posted by glowstix

you're still missing the point: WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE!! how am i going to tell soren thompson from joe bloke armchair fencer??!???

what!? you're not soren thompson, damn I thought I had that worked out

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by keith

what!? you're not soren thompson, damn I thought I had that worked out

sorry to disappoint.. as you can see, i'm lefty in the pic.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheCat263

Why should elite athletes share their knowledge when all we do is criticize them?

Is that all we do?

I've seen far more posts of individual and team results from World Cups -- celebratory-type-posts -- than elite-technique bashing here.

And even more drooling-over-pictures-of-top-female-fencers threads.

Nevermind the posts breaking down nearly every single hit from some of the bouts in the Athens Olympics -- these were analytical, and pointing out where there were missed opportunities, or mistakes that lead to hits being scored, certainly. But I'd call that analysis and not criticism.

This is how I see most elite-level fencers being mentioned here. But I don't read every thread, so maybe I just miss the horrid "every elite fencer sucks" threads that keep popping up.

It seems to me that this over-criticism of elite fencers is rare, and is only brought up here because of a recent thread where it actually happened, and not to any degree similar to what one would think after reading this particular thread.

[Welted 24/7]

Why should elite athletes share their knowledge when all we do is criticize them? Perhaps this is why Fencerontheline's two elite fencer friends have retired from fnet.

Maybe I just haven't been here for long enough, but anytime I see international results talked about here, all I see is praise and pride in their accomplishments. As far as FOTL's "elite" friends...I don't know why we should respect somebody who can make plenty of time to come on to insult people, but can't be bothered to try helping. Their big solution is to just contribute to the problem? I don't care HOW good you are as a fencer...that's just stupid.

The instances of actual, unwarranted criticisms that I've seen are pretty rare. I personally think that this whole thing is just a big overreaction.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Welted 24/7

The instances of actual, unwarranted criticisms that I've seen are pretty rare. I personally think that this whole thing is just a big overreaction.

It is much better today than it was in the past....

[Mr Epee]

I guessed that F.net wasn't the only one like this and found this on another forum dedicated to Japanese Sword Arts (JSA).. I'm passing it along for reference...
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Why Internet discussions of JSA theory are doomed to failure

I will have been a participant/moderator here at Swordforum for 7 years this August. In that time I've seen hundreds of folks come and go in the ether. I've met and gotten to know dozens of you--and have generally been delighted by the experience. And, I've tried to moderate and participate to the best of my abilities, given the time constraints of being a physician, an "elder" in my church, and a JSA study group leader.

Over that time, I have noticed a very sad trend concerning the participation of MOST--not all--of the folks we consider to be highly respected in the JSA. I am talking about the higher-ranking or more experienced instructors--people who have been doing this stuff for 10, 20, 30 years or more--and I don't mean the folks who count their diaper years as experience in the art. I'm talking about the ones who have lived in Japan, who have immersed themselves in the training, who have had the fortune to interact and learn from some of the top practitioners at the heart of the JSA. I am talking about the folks who have explored the depths of our training, who have the most knowledge to share and discuss intelligently from a more practical training rather than theoretical background. Quite simply, they come here out of curiosity, contribute valuable information for a while, and then end up going back into lurk mode or leaving in disgust altogether.

WHY?! Why do the discussion groups drive these teachers away? Why do we find our threads limited to relatively benign topics as sword lengths, brands, and how to get comfortable in tatehiza?

Think about it. Admittance to a "physical" dojo is generally not open to everyone. Most instructors screen their candidates carefully, looking for particular indicators that student, teacher and art will be a good "fit." Even then, the attrition rate is considerable. Instruction is carried out in person, at a rate determined and controlled by the instructor, who puts a tremendous amount of energy into working with each student. Hours a week of personal interaction, supplemented by hours of individual practice. And THEN there are the invaluable social hours--those times away from the dojo, when student and teacher are free to ramble about personal or non-sword-related topics, during which both gain a greater understanding and appreciation for who the other person is and what makes him/her tick. All of this goes into creating the bond of student and teacher in the JSA.

Now then--contrast this with the Internet. A totally open door dojo policy, admitting folks of all ages, backgrounds, experiences and mental states with an entire spectrum of agendas in mind when they sign in here. Anyone choosing to be an "instructor" of such an unknown quantity is taking an awful chance--of being misunderstood, insulted, scolded, flamed--or being undeservedly praised, which in its own way is just as bad. Even given the premise that most people are inherently good and well-meaning, there is a far greater chance of conflict and misunderstanding when we are all so reliant upon the medium of the printed word.

For one thing, some folks have the liberty of spending hours a day in discussion here, whereas others of us are limited to 20 minutes every other day or less. And, dare I say, it is usually the people who have the most valuable information to impart who actually have the least amount of free time to do so...For another, we cannot see the facial expressions, hear the intonations or know the entire background or mental maturity level of the persons with whom we are discussing sometimes controversial issues. These are details that would not be such factors in a face-to-face discussion.

So is it any wonder that instructors generally prefer to spend their free time instructing conscientious students in person rather than the anonymous mass in the Internet?

For those of you out there who do not have the fortune of being able to interact face-to-face with JSA instructors regularly, my heart goes out to you. It is HUNDREDS of times more satisfying to be present during the late night hour "Sensei discussions" that occur at the seminar and other training gettogethers than any Internet discussion I have EVER seen. Do I get satisfaction from having helped someone on the Internet? Certainly--but my heart does not burst with pride the way it does when one of the members of my study group gets complimented by a Sensei at a seminar.

So, I am going to take a valuable lesson from the many instructors who have earned my respect over the years. I will continue to be here, and to moderate, but I will refrain from posting as if I were talking to members of my study group. Those of you who wish to may certainly PM or email me with concerns--I do reserve the right to answer--or not--as I see fit.

And for those of you who continue to "instruct" here--good luck. You are going to need it.


__________________
In Sangha,
Dr. Diane Mirro
SFI Moderator