Team at Nationals

[I fence epee]

What is the difference between Div. I team and Senior team?

[Sabresque]

One has a more dificult qualification path (Div.I), and Senior I believe is more open.

[I fence epee]

So, does everbody on a div. 1 team have to have points, or do just some of them or do points have anything to do with it?

[edew]

A team qualifies as a team. The members need not be those who competed during the qualifiers. The members only need to be US citizens and members in good standing of the USFA and the respective team.

[Goofy]

The qualifying paths for both team categories are the same- through the Divisional level (according to Sections 2.2-2.3 of the USFA Athlete's Handbook). I believe the difference is that for Division I teams the participants must meet the requirements for individual Division I competition.

[Inquartata]

I can't even find Senior Team mentioned on the Qualifying Path document from the OM on the website. The section on Div I teams makes no mention of points, or of needing to be qualified for Div I individually---just for qualifying through the Division.

[Goofy]

I sent a note to the USFA about this question, and the response was that this year there is no difference in these team categories. I reckon the qualified team would decide which competition day best fit their schedule and enter that event.

[I fence epee]

so, basically, they are holding the same competition twice? Who is the real national champion then?

[Inquartata]

"This year"? Am I to understand then that there is a meaningful distinction in Olympic years, and Div I Team is more restrictive then? Or was the dual status an oversight which the USFA plans to correct?

Or is Senior Team the Div 1-A of team events?

[Schiavona]

Talk about an easy path to the Nationals! My Division went through a lot trying to find out what the deal with the team events are (is). We have 5 USFA clubs, that allows us to send 4 teams per each weapon, per each event! There are 3 team events; Div I team, Senior team and U19 team. The clubs enter teams in the Division qualifying tournament, then, if they get a slot (Ha Ha!), they get to send a team to Nationals. The team a club sends to Nationals doesn't even have to contain the same fencers as the team at the qualifier.

So, to sum up, my small Division (less than 100 members) could send a 3 (or 4) person team to Nationals in the following events. Div I MF, ME, MS, WF, WE & WS. Senior Team MF, ME, MS, WF, WE & WS. U19 MF, ME, MS, WF, WE, & WS. Some quick math gives us 54-72 people qualified to go to Nationals without ever having to go to a qualifying event! In theory, anyway.

[hello?]

Are you sure you don't have to have senior points to be on the Div-1 team???

[Inquartata]

Here's the qualifying path info from the USFA website ( I see no mention of points being required ):


2004-05 Qualification Paths to National Events
Division I Team National Championships

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All fencers in all competitions (including the Qualifying Competitions) must be USFA Competitive Members who are either citizens or permanent residents of the United States of America. Only members of their Division may compete in their Division's Qualifying Competitions. Only members of their Section may compete in their Section's Qualifying Competitions. There are no alternate qualifiers to any National tournaments.
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The members of the team must be US citizens or permanent residents born no later than 1991 and must have represented the club in USFA competitions.


1. The top four finishers from the 2004 National Team Championships qualify automatically.

2. Each Division will be entitled to qualifiers based on the number of eligible clubs (all fencers must be in compliance with the rules on USFA Club representation) in the Division's Team Qualifying Competition in that season as follows:


Examples:

1 club = 1 qualifier
2 club = 2 qualifier
3 club = 3 qualifier
4 - 5 clubs = 4 qualifiers
6 - 10 clubs = 5 qualifiers
> 10 clubs = 6 qualifiers

Only one team per club is permitted to qualify.

A division may hold either a combined Team Qualifying Competition to qualify clubs for Division I and Senior National Team Championships or may hold separate qualifying competitions.

[misha]

Originally Posted by hello?

Are you sure you don't have to have senior points to be on the Div-1 team???

yes


.

[Montoya]

I fenced on our Div I team (as alternate) before I had Senior Points.

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Only one team per club is permitted to qualify.

We asked for a clairification of this. The one team per club is one team per weapon/event.

[mfp]

As pointed out above, divisions can hold either separate qualifying events for Div 1 and Senior team or the more common single qualifier for both. If a combined divisional qualifer is held, then a club that qualifies a team for one qualifies for both. There are no requirements that Senior/Div I team members have any sort of points, classifications, etc. There's no requirement that team members be the same for both events. There's no requirement that the team members fencing in championships be the same as the team members who fenced in the qualifier.

The differences then come down to that the Div I team event and the corresponding Senior Team event are held on different days and the seedings for the team competitions differ:

Seeding for team competitions will be based on the results of each member of a team at that National Championships in the specific category: Division I Team based on results in Division I National Championships; Under-19 team according to results of the team members in the Under-19 National Championships. The bout committee may assign quality points to a competitor who did not fence in the individual competition in accordance with its best judgment, with the proviso that the competitor cannot be deemed to have placed higher than 13th. However, in seeding Junior (U-19) National Championship team competitions, fencers who did not compete in the individual events shall be seeded using their national rankings as results.

Seeding for Senior team competitions based on best results of three members of the team in Division IA, Division II or Division III competition. Seeding points = place in Division IA, place +10 in Division II, place +20 in Division III with lowest value = seed value.


For example our club qualified a ME team for both the Div I ME team and the Senior ME Team events via a combined divisional qualifier. However because not enough of us will be around on the day of the Div I Team event, we'll just be fencing the Senior Team event instead.

Now since no one on our team will be fencing any Div I, IA, II, or III events, it's a mystery what will be used to seed us, but we'll be there.

[mfp]

Originally Posted by edew

The members only need to be US citizens [...]

Not true -- team members don't even need to be US citizens. Permanent residents of the US can fence in the USFA championships as well, and do.

Permanent residents (or US citizens) who have represented another country in the last three years are not eligible though, at least not without a waiver.

[edew]

'Nother boo-boo by EDEW. Yes, the fencer may be a permanent resident. The fencer cannot be some ringer the club hired from Club Extrapo from Hungary or somewheres.