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hpfencing · 06-20-2005, 05:18 PM

I have a simple question.

What sizes blades are required at what ages? I know it's in one of the USFA documents but I cannot find it.

Can anyone help?

foildad · 06-20-2005, 07:35 PM

Y-12 and older can use a #5. Y-10 can only use a #0 or #2.

DHCJr · 06-20-2005, 08:12 PM

But that doesn't answer the question. What length is a #0 or #2 blade?

That I am afraid is a retorical question as there is no answer. A member of the Youth Committee has stated they will be putting out new specifications on that. The trouble is some manufacturers do not mark their blades and the ones who do have different standards for what length is a #0 or #2 blade.

DHCJr · 06-21-2005, 11:25 AM

Both foildad and myself were behind the times. The unenforceble rule of #0 or #2 blade has been changed for Y-10 fencers. They now have a maximum length of 32.5" for blade length.

This can be found in the RYC web site www.usfaryc.org under procedures.

KD5MDK · 06-21-2005, 02:26 PM

Offhand, does that technically only apply to RYC tournaments? Or does it also apply to a local competition that has Y-10 events?

DHCJr · 06-21-2005, 04:18 PM

It should apply to all, the same as the rulebook applies. The rule I mentioned only clarifies what blade is required. I know of one instance where a vendor stated some blades were the legal length, but were unmarked. The fencer arrived at a tournament and was not allowed to fence. Now a parent will know before they get to a tournament what will be allowed.

I personally have always been against this rule for Y-10. There have been some 10 year olds, I have seen I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley. Others have said, that some smaller would be at a disadvantage, if someone bigger had a full-size blade. I know of an A fencer, who has a child old enough to be a junior that has blades that make what some people would consider short for a #0 blade that uses them when they fence very tall fencers. Those tall fencers are at a disadvantage when they fence with a full size blade when they fence this fencer.

KD5MDK · 06-21-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

It should apply to all, the same as the rulebook applies.

According to the document, (I can't copy from it because it is password protected)
"The following are requirements related to hosting a RYC tournament"
It addresses several things, including the length of blades in Y-10. However, it also addresses things like requiring the use of FencingTime and askfred.net, which are obviously not required of all tournaments with youth events.

Therefore, as I read it, if your event is not an RYC event, the rulebook only applies, and that says #0 or #2 blades.

Obviously the rulebook needs to be updated, but that hasn't happened yet, as far as I know.

Slim · 06-21-2005, 06:32 PM

Interesting comment.....can you explain how the fencer with the shorter blade may have an advantage when fencing the taller opponent?

Thanks,Slim

Purple Fencer · 06-21-2005, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim

Interesting comment.....can you explain how the fencer with the shorter blade may have an advantage when fencing the taller opponent?

Thanks,Slim

Infighting comes to mind...

DHCJr · 06-21-2005, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Therefore, as I read it, if your event is not an RYC event, the rulebook only applies, and that says #0 or #2 blades.

Obviously the rulebook needs to be updated, but that hasn't happened yet, as far as I know.

What rulebook are you talking about? Certainly not the USFA rulebook as it has no requirement for the use of #0 or #2 blades. The RYC has only had procedures manuals. The procedure manual has been changed.

So I ask you 2 questions. What is a #0 or #2 blade? What rulebook are you talking about?

Slim as Sam stated infighting. They do a quick hard beat and step in. Their opponent can do nothing.

Aliera · 06-21-2005, 09:58 PM

#0 and #2 refer to the number of inches above 30. So a #0 blade would be 30 inches long, while a #5 blade would be 35 inches long.

Purple Fencer · 06-21-2005, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliera

#0 and #2 refer to the number of inches above 30. So a #0 blade would be 30 inches long, while a #5 blade would be 35 inches long.

Ahhhhh....actually, they don't...that is a common fallicy. The ONLY blade that has a length specified in the rulebook is the one commonly referred to as the #5....90 cm from the front of the guard to forward extremity of the blade (including tip).

(Remember....this is a Euro-born sport -- the land of metric...why would they use English measurements?)

The length for a #2 or #0 is not, repeat, NOT specified anywhere in the rulebook....theoretically, you could take a blade that is 100cm long, stamp it with a "2" and presto...instant legal #2 blade.

This is one of those things Dan Dechaine and others are trying to get codified.

In GENERAL, the #2 is approximately 3 inches shorter than the #5....

DHCJr · 06-22-2005, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliera

#0 and #2 refer to the number of inches above 30. So a #0 blade would be 30 inches long, while a #5 blade would be 35 inches long.

As Sam said a full length blade is 90cm. If you were to calculate that out it would be approximately 35 1/2" long. The majority of blades are less than 1/2" from the maximum. So if you required a blade to be no more than 35", you wouldn't have a competition, since there wouldn't be enough weapons that were legal to have even a pool.

The same is true with the shorter blades. If you had a competiton and required that all blades be less than 32", you would have a competition.

This actually happened at the last NAC that was held in Ventura California. Most of you probably don't remember that one as it was when the local organization supplied the machines and reels, before there was electric Sabre. One coach from Denver, since she was on the bout committee tried to require that only 0 or 2 blades could be used. It so happened that was all their club used. The trouble was none of the other fencers had those blades and there were no vendors. The Armorers, Dan, Carl and myself stated if they required that, we would stamp every blade with a 2. The coach then, stated they would require the blades to be less than 32". So we agreed. The first fencer we tested was her #1 fencer. We tested his Foils and FAILED every single one. We then went to another of her fencers and failed all of their weapons. The rule was quietly dropped for that tournament.

The 0 blades equals 30" is an urban legend. Leon Paul which is one of the few that are somewhat consistent in their shorter lengths make their bare 0 blades WITHOUT the tip APPROXIMATELY 30". The trouble is the blade length includes both the barrel and tip as well as any strengthener on the outside of the guard.

hpfencing · 06-24-2005, 09:34 PM

I guess I opened a can of worms for that one..... I'll start a new thread and re-post the question a little differently.