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LUDICROUS · 06-18-2005, 04:53 AM

Watched a bit of that bout on dvd (word), USA vs Russia.

Wow, crazy.

Kellner or Tiompkin has a seriously low and bent-leg leaning forward en guarde - Why does he use it?

And whoever did that (I think it was a USA fencer) fleche-jump-sideways-4 -metres-down-the-piste-flick-to-their-back thing is a fencing GOD.

ReverseLunge · 06-18-2005, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

Kellner or Tiompkin has a seriously low and bent-leg leaning forward en guarde - Why does he use it?

Because of the new foil timings. chest, stomach and flank are prime targets now. Especially stomach since it is soft and will almost always register a hit with the new debounce times. Before the new timings that position would have been suicide since is totally exposes the back and shoulder to the flick.

Someting isn't quite right though. The fencers of old used to fence totally sideways in order to minimize target area. Then came the flick and fencing sideways was a bad thing since it gave too much flicking area. The new timings has made high level foil fencing very deformed looking since it is a complete counter attack and remise game now.

The only thing that can be done is to accept the flick. Some people suggest using a stiffer blade with a stonger pressure spring. How can that work since there is plenty of flicking in epee and there would be much more if epee was a ROW game.

Kat · 06-18-2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

Because of the new foil timings. chest, stomach and flank are prime targets now.

I assume that the match that Ludicrous was referring to was at the Athens Olympics for the bronze medal. This would have been under the old timings.

LUDICROUS · 06-18-2005, 07:02 AM

Whoops, sorry people.

I meant the olympic match.

reposte · 06-18-2005, 12:15 PM

I must say I'm very dissappointed with the American fencing community on that regard.
Almost every foil match is available on eMule except that beautiful match.
I'm allowing myself to talk about it despite the business done on that bout by this site, because it was available for download through the Italian broadcast network.
If someone has that file, please pm me! I saw half the match and it was beautiful.

ReverseLunge · 06-18-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kat

I assume that the match that Ludicrous was referring to was at the Athens Olympics for the bronze medal. This would have been under the old timings.

Oh. How silly of me then. Sorry.

edew · 06-19-2005, 03:09 AM

The DVD for this event (MFT USA v Russia, and the Italy v China) are available. Contact me for info. I'll have some available at the Summer Nationals.

The Tiomkin touch when the US was ahead 5-4 again Moltchan was amazing. He runs at Moltchan causing Moltchan to act quickly, making an attack into Tiomkin. Tiomkin leaps up, thereby somewhat putting on the brakes, catches the attack into prep with a prime and flicks the riposte on Moltchan's back as he leaps past. If it didn't do enough to win the bronze, it certainly should do enough to entertain and amaze people who see it in slo-mo.

LUDICROUS · 06-19-2005, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edew

The DVD for this event (MFT USA v Russia, and the Italy v China) are available. Contact me for info. I'll have some available at the Summer Nationals.

The Tiomkin touch when the US was ahead 5-4 again Moltchan was amazing. He runs at Moltchan causing Moltchan to act quickly, making an attack into Tiomkin. Tiomkin leaps up, thereby somewhat putting on the brakes, catches the attack into prep with a prime and flicks the riposte on Moltchan's back as he leaps past. If it didn't do enough to win the bronze, it certainly should do enough to entertain and amaze people who see it in slo-mo.

Yes!

Best fencing thing I've ever seen.

edew · 06-19-2005, 12:50 PM

The funny part is after that touch, when they get back on guard, Tiomkin stands in a "coming back at you again" crouch and Moltchan almost pees in his pants. And when the ref calls, "fence!" Tiomkin stands fixed and Moltchan edges towards Jon like he's got leprosy or something.

peet · 06-20-2005, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edew

The funny part is after that touch, when they get back on guard, Tiomkin stands in a "coming back at you again" crouch and Moltchan almost pees in his pants. And when the ref calls, "fence!" Tiomkin stands fixed and Moltchan edges towards Jon like he's got leprosy or something.

Yeah, that action was way cool. I remember watching that live on the italian web feed and loving it. Thing is, the way I remembered it, no-one got the touch on that action. Correct me if I'm wrong?

We are talking about that shot that Serge Timacheff got the awesome picture of, yes?

-p

Agent_V · 06-20-2005, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

Yeah, that action was way cool. I remember watching that live on the italian web feed and loving it. Thing is, the way I remembered it, no-one got the touch on that action. Correct me if I'm wrong?

We are talking about that shot that Serge Timacheff got the awesome picture of, yes?

-p

Nope, that's a different Tiompkin leap - against Ganeev, in which no touch was scored. The leap he scored with was against Molchan.

Alexander

peet · 06-20-2005, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent_V

Nope, that's a different Tiompkin leap - against Ganeev, in which no touch was scored. The leap he scored with was against Molchan.

Alexander

oh, well that would explain it.

same bout?

-p

esskreemr · 06-20-2005, 02:54 AM

I find it ironic that even during the attempts to remove the flick from the foil game, the FIE still has the attached file as the first thing that people see when they arrive at their site:

edew · 06-20-2005, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

oh, well that would explain it.

same bout?

-p

Same match, different bout. First was against Moltchan. Second was against Ganeev. Didn't do it against Pozdniakov, as far as I can recall.

reposte · 06-20-2005, 07:12 AM

Having seen it once, and not remembering who against who (personas), I do remember the U.S held thir own very adequately until they started to lose it, and I distnctly remember noting that the turning point was a gratuitous act of jumping in the air and not scoring the touch. Oddly enough I thought it was Kellner, yet I remember distinctly saying to myself that they are losing it, and indeed the divide simply got larger.
At no point did any Russian pee in his pants.

edew · 06-20-2005, 12:49 PM

The US team did fabulously well. They held on until the 8th or maybe the 9th bout. They may even be ahead at the start of the ninth bout, if I recall correctly.

peet · 06-20-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edew

Same match, different bout. First was against Moltchan. Second was against Ganeev. Didn't do it against Pozdniakov, as far as I can recall.

yeah, that's what i meant. same match.

***Craig*** · 06-20-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reposte

I'm allowing myself to talk about it despite the business done on that bout by this site, because it was available for download through the Italian broadcast network.

Not sure I follow you on this one. Fencing.Net does not sell the Olympic DVDs as I don't have a copyright to them.

reposte · 06-20-2005, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Not sure I follow you on this one. Fencing.Net does not sell the Olympic DVDs as I don't have a copyright to them

Sorry!
Anyway, it would seem in bad taste to meddle in anyone's business, be he a fellow member.
It's simply that I'm not a part of the local fencing scene, don't know who from the veteran members is also with the site and so forth.