US Men's Sabre: 2nd in Venezuala

[Craig]

Barquisimeto, Venezuela – The United States Men’s Sabre Team of Ivan Lee (24, Brooklyn, N.Y. St. John’s ‘01), Timothy Morehouse (26, New York, N.Y. Brandeis ‘00), Jason Rogers (22, Los Angeles, CA., Ohio State U. ’06) and Timothy Hagamen (20, New York, N.Y., Harvard ’07) took the silver medal at the Grand Prix World Cup, held in Barquisimeto, Venezuela. The United States lost to France for the gold, 45-41. This is their second medal this season, as they captured the bronze in Warsaw, Poland on May 15. Although this result replaces their gold medal performance a year ago in New York, they are still ranked third in the world, maintaining their position as a bona fide international powerhouse.

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[whtouche]

Why was tim hagaman on the team and not adam crompton, keeth smart, or anyone else who is actually...you know...ON the national points list?

[afc fencer]

Originally Posted by whtouche

Why was tim hagaman on the team and not adam crompton, keeth smart, or anyone else who is actually...you know...ON the national points list?

No one else went.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by afc fencer

No one else went.

From the individual results (62 total entries):
18. LEE, Ivan
20. ROGERS, Jason
33. MOREHOUSE, Timothy
36. HAGAMEN, Timothy
50. EFSTATHIOU, Evan

Evan is on the points list. Clearly Tim did better in the individual tournament (same round, but near the top of the bracket rather than near the bottom. Evan is currently ranked US#20. FIE rankings Evan is 125th (10 points) and Tim is 134th (9 points) (both should include the 4 points from Barquisimeto). Tim has previously held a significantly higher US ranking than Evan. In any case I'm guessing that the team was basically the three Olympians and then a fourth in case they got hurt or to gain a bit of experience in a blow-out match. It's also clearly possible that Evan had to return prior to the team event to get back to work. Tim, as a college student during summer break, presumably didn't have that requirement.

Team results:
Rang Pts Nom Nationalité
1 64 FRANCE FRA
2 52 U.S.A. USA
3 40 ALLEMAGNE GER
4 36 ESPAGNE ESP
5 32 ROUMANIE ROM
6 30 BELARUS BLR
7 28 CANADA CAN
8 26 VENEZUELA VEN
9 25 CUBA CUB
10 24 JAPON JPN

Note missing teams: Italy (now #2), Russia (#4), Hungary (#5), Ukraine (#6), China (#8). Great result, but not exactly against the varsity.

-B :)

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by whtouche

Why was tim hagaman on the team and not adam crompton, keeth smart, or anyone else who is actually...you know...ON the national points list?

Hagamen is on the U.S. Sr. point standings (#23) with Group II points from two other internatioanl events. He also has FIE points. Unless I am mistaken (and I could be!,) you are not allowed to fence at World Cups unless you're on the national point standings.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

Hagamen is on the U.S. Sr. point standings (#23) with Group II points from two other internatioanl events. He also has FIE points. Unless I am mistaken (and I could be!,) you are not allowed to fence at World Cups unless you're on the national point standings.

In general that's true, but I think they have the power to make exceptions, and honestly, I can't think of a better fencer to have out there (personally I think Hagamen is better than morehouse).

[sloper]

Originally Posted by prototoast

In general that's true, but I think they have the power to make exceptions, and honestly, I can't think of a better fencer to have out there (personally I think Hagamen is better than morehouse).

I know it's been a few years, but Tim Hagamen fenced one of the most heart-stoppingly beautiful bouts I have ever seen. It was at a NAC in South Bend, and he was fencing a visiting German fencer whose name I don't remember. I do remember that he was extremely tall - he made Hagamen look short - and that he was expected to do very well if not win.
I don't even remember if Hagamen won the bout, but I saw him get great touch after great touch. And he didn't do anything tricky or questionable. It was perfect choice of action along with perfect execution and lots of spirit and courage to keep it all going. I hope someone has the bout on tape, shows it to developing sabre fencers and says, "This is sabre fencing."

[whtouche]

My mistake, I was looking on the team point standings which he was not on, but obviously he is on the rolling points list.
As for who's better, hagamen or morehouse....I don't know the answer to that question but tim (morehouse) seems to have really stepped it up over the past couple years while tim (hagamen) hasn't really been doing most of the national events.

[Jbauer24]

Hagamen is rediculously good. Definately better than Morehouse. Tim M. is definately good, but a lot of his success comes from his unorthadox (very) style. Not necissarily something that can be effective internationally where someone is more likely to figure him out. That said, wheres Adam? I know Keeths taking some time off or whatever, but with Adam in there for Jason, I think they beat France hands down. Yes, Hagamen over Rogers