Inventing your own grip

[ReverseLunge]

Do you guy know if this would be acceptable?

http://www.arduin.com/Treasures/Zand...LastChance.jpg

[Zilverzmurfen]

I believe you asked about this quite recently..?

[ReverseLunge]

Yes I did. I just want to get an better opinion.

[drseudo]

Yeah, I guess. The only place in the rules where you might get into trouble is t.16: 'When the handle has a special device or attachment or has a special shape (e.g. orthopaedic) it must be held in such a way that the upper surface of the thumb is in the same plane as the groove in the blade (in foil or épée) and perpendicular to the plane of the flexibility of the blade in saber.'

So depending on how you wanted to hold it, I guess.

[jm_f]

Dunno why you'd want that but a push dagger grip would give you poor point control, it would be really easy for your opponent to parry you in 4 and 6.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by drseudo

it must be held in such a way that the upper surface of the thumb is in the same plane as the groove in the blade (in foil or épée) .

I read that too but I'm not sure what it means. So can your thumb be above that plane but pointing in the same direction as the plane?

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by jm_f

Dunno why you'd want that but a push dagger grip would give you poor point control, it would be really easy for your opponent to parry you in 4 and 6.

I dont think it would give me poor point control since I don't think that point control is all about finger control. With this grip I would have superior binding/beating power and superior infighting anglulation.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by drseudo

Yeah, I guess. The only place in the rules where you might get into trouble is t.16: 'When the handle has a special device or attachment or has a special shape (e.g. orthopaedic) it must be held in such a way that the upper surface of the thumb is in the same plane as the groove in the blade (in foil or épée) and perpendicular to the plane of the flexibility of the blade in saber.'

So depending on how you wanted to hold it, I guess.

When I read this last night, I thought it was a joke. I reading that others have given this serious answers, I will try to add a little. drseudo, a very good answer and the last sentence is the key. Add M.4.6.a to t.16 you come up with NO. The handle would be illegal.

To hold this handle legally, the palm would have to be up and the wire on top. As had been said many times any handle could be held in different ways, for example upside down. But why would you hold a Belgium upside down, you would loose the control. This handle is symetrical. You could hold it so the thumb and the wire is on the same side of the blade. You could just as easily hold it so the thumb and the wire were on the opposite side of the blade.

[KD5MDK]

While I agree that it is illegal under the current rules, I think the spirit of the rules would argue in favor of it. That is, if any named exceptions were to be made, this could be one of them.
Also, anything that made it non-symetrical (in the proper orientation) ought to make it allowable.

[fencinman89]

[quote=drseudo]Yeah, I guess. The only place in the rules where you might get into trouble is t.16: 'When the handle has a special device or attachment or has a special shape (e.g. orthopaedic) it must be held in such a way that the upper surface of the thumb is in the same plane as the groove in the blade (in foil or épée) and perpendicular to the plane of the flexibility of the blade in saber.'
[quote]

Is this saying that one can use an orthpedic grip in sabre, or am I reading that wrong.
-Tre'

[voi3ad]

I've been using a modified grip on mine for most of this year. I did however make sure my interpretation of the rule was checked by officials who had no problem with it. No more thumb pain.

Is this saying that one can use an orthpedic grip in sabre, or am I reading that wrong.
-Tre'

[fencinman89]

Is it a modified sabre grip, or an actual orthopedic grip that is slightly changed to fit a sabre?
-Tre'

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I dont think it would give me poor point control since I don't think that point control is all about finger control.

And credibility is lost. Point control is all fingers, if not you're doing it with your wrist and/or elbow which makes your actions too big and not as precise.

[voi3ad]

It might not work for everyone, but I've covered over the handle to suit my hands size. I was getting a lot of pain from my first joint on my thumb, downwards and people kept telling me I was gripping too tightly, but I didn't think I was, so the adjustment helped my situation.

Originally Posted by fencinman89

Is it a modified sabre grip, or an actual orthopedic grip that is slightly changed to fit a sabre?
-Tre'

[fencinman89]

Just wonderin, thanx. I do think it would be funny thought, if sum1 managed to put a visconti on a sabre.
-Tre'

[hale bopp]

DHCjr seems to know his onions...i wonder if i could ask you for some clarification concearning the definition of "orthopaedic"...

t.16: 'When the handle has a special device or attachment or has a special shape (e.g. orthopaedic) it must be held in such a way that the upper surface of the thumb is in the same plane as the groove in the blade (in foil or épée) and perpendicular to the plane of the flexibility of the blade in saber.'

what do they mean by special device or attachment? specifically, does the french grip need to be rectangular or square in crossection? can it be oval in one place and square in another? is there a limit to diameter? what if there were a bulge instead of a protrusion typically associated with orthopaedic grips? have the FIE defined the french grip specs?

thank you

[KD5MDK]

1. Generally, any protrusions that allow it to be gripped more firmly.
2. Not specified.
3. I would say yes
4. Not specified
5. Depends on the location. If the bulge is even around the grip, it may be allowed.
6. No.

[hale bopp]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

1. Generally, any protrusions that allow it to be gripped more firmly.
2. Not specified.
3. I would say yes
4. Not specified
5. Depends on the location. If the bulge is even around the grip, it may be allowed.
6. No.

thank you, that was helpful. it sounds like anything asymetrical in terms of protrusions etc. would be labeled 'orthopaedic'.

i have been over the rulebook but havent come across anything as specific as your reply, is there another source for this information that is more specific?

is there a way to appeal equipment modifications aside from bringing it to a tournement?

[DHCJr]

KD5MDK answers were good. Your conclusion not so good. Just because they are asymetrical would not make it orthopedic. Most French are asymetrical. The problem is this is a judgement call. For example, I have what I call a Pregnent French. It has a small rise at the top, but it is not enough to fix the hand. It just feels more comfortable to me when I am not posting.

It is like one of those things you say, "I can't explain it, but I know when I see it." One way to try and understand, take a handle and try it in different, but specific places and see if you have the same control and feel in each. With French you can not get your hand in exactly the same specific place every time. Let us take a Visconti for example. Hold it in the normal way. Now hold it by the back up against the bottom pistol section. Can you fence as well?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by fencinman89

Just wonderin, thanx. I do think it would be funny thought, if sum1 managed to put a visconti on a sabre.
-Tre'

Kashi Way (DCFC) fixed up his sabres with modified belgian grips. Cleared as legal by George K. at some point, according to Kashi.

-B