Weight training with fencing.

[angrylemur]

What is everyone's opinion on this? I hear a lot of contradiction, but I for one enjoy using a program that involves plyometrics and strength training to help fencing. What does everyone else think?

Also, what do you think about combining running, fencing, and lifting in each week?

[Zelda]

I dont run (I HATE it, my knees hate it and I get bored) but I do fence and lift weights. Its good for me as it helps even me up (I muscle up quickly and suffer the scurge of fencers everywhere....fencers thighs). Personally I am a little bit of a gym junkie and as such am not a good person to ask. I generally do the gym 3-4 times a week and fence 2-3 times a week. You are perpetually on a high of some sort!!

[Craig]

There have been two schools of thought about weight training in the past. One school maintained that weight training would decrease your flexibility and your ability to make quick moves vs. power moves where the other school maintained that the weight training had no negative effects.

The "truth" is somewhere in the middle. If you are doing a lot of strength/power training, then your muscles will tend to tighten up if you don't stretch consistently. You need to continue additional stretching (more than without weights) to maintain the ability of your muscles to "flow" through your actions.

Most coaches that have been against weight training in the past are now adopting it and tailoring lifting programs to the specific needs of fencing. (This mirrors the same debates that were made with baseball and weight training, IMO.)

I can't design a weight training program for you (nor should I). My suggestion is to talk to your coach, or if your coach does not have this expertise, go down to your local college/university and see if there is someone in their sports/fitness department that has the expertise to put together a weight training program based upon the muscle groups you use when fencing and your specific goals for increased power, quickness, endurance.

Cheers,
Craig

[damianip]

My son's coach (recent Olympic coach) puts a premium on balanced athletecism. Training for strength and power are fine as long as flexibility and relaxation through the arms and shoulders is maintained.

He puts a very large emphasis on flexibility.

My own coach has never discussed weight or power training with me. I guess he just wants to make sure I can get up and down the strip without tripping or having an infarction. However, he also maintains that muscular tension in the upper body destroys point control and bladework execution.

So, to sum up, weights are OK but keep your flexibility. As my son's coach says while drilling(apply Ukrainian accent here):

"Loose, loose, loose... absolutely relaxing... sit... loose, loose, loose!!!"

Paolo

[D'Artagnan1673]

My coach suggested that I train with a low amount of weight but with high repetition. I fence 1-2 times a week (2 more than 1 really) I also play tennis 2-3 times a week and jog at least once a week.

[afc fencer]

My coach makes us do footwork with a 60 pound vest on or weights on our legs.

[arcon]

Ok, Im like Zelda. I spend at least 6 hours at the gym every week but my program
varies for both flexibility and a bit more strenght. I say a bit because my weight is light
compared to the guys building for bulk and (JUST) strenght. More repetitions and
less weight is my rule. Warm up before and stretch. Do your routine then streach
again. Do cardio on a day, then do upper body the next. I dont like to work the legs
alot on the same day i fence. And you certaintly dont wont to (over) work them one or
two days before. If you are interested in forming a routine for yourself i may can help
pm me if youd like.

arcon

[Sanky]

I tend to run round a local wood twice a week, fit Gym time in where I can. The gym work is light and usually geared to either cardio and upper body.

I do a lot of Mountain Biking so my legs tend to get quite large but the muscles are short, so I'm not tremendously flexible as a result.

Plenty of stretching before fencing is the key for me.

[135711]

i know that some shy away from giving advice, but here goes; if i were doing weights, i'd work on the neck. i did do some weight training for 2years, seriously, while i trained in taekwondo. [i was a real kicker] anyway, the person who trained me was a personal trainer and high level runner. he did a program for me that included a circuit training doing 3 circuits each time i went into the gym. the lighter weights done in more reps produce an aerobic effect while heavy weights lifted less in a set produce more bulk. to me, it's easy to build strengh from the waist down, because the center of gravity for the female is the hips down. so, i would work on my weakest area first, that would be upper body strength.

[counter riposte]

OK...

My former coach recommended low weights, high repetitions, and plenty of cardio...

But I really want to get more input on this...

Can anyone recommend a good workout that will improve overall performance on the strip?

[Craig]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Can anyone recommend a good workout that will improve overall performance on the strip? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Footwork, footwork, footwork.

In all seriousness, this is something that you should personalize with your former coach or someone in the sports performance department of your university.

In my experience, a combination of lots of conditioning footwork combined with a basic weight training program aimed at toning (low to medium weights, high repetitions, last set to failure) and aimed at fencing-specific muscle groups did a lot to both improve my physical game and improve my psychological focus. Along with the footwork and weights went a great deal of abdominal work as well.

Disclaimer: You will receive some recommendations on this board, but since you don't know the fitness level and competitive level/results of those posting here you have to take any advice received on the Internet with the proverbial grain of salt.

Cheers,
Craig

[arcon]

Personally i dont think we should view all recommendations on this site "with a grain of salt".

I believe the person didnt ask for opinions on our fitness level or fencing level.

The training advice ive seen here so far seems to be in the same vein. Nothing out of the ordinary.

From my experience in promoting physical fitness , coaching and viewing others as they train..........even some of the
intermediate fencers are serious and have good work out and training programs.

respectfully yours
arcon

[veeco]

I think our esteemed webmaster's comment was that basically since there is no way of saying if the person who posted that comment is qualified to create a real training program, comments made to this board might or might not be useful.

While everyone has posted some valuable insight, there is no way of making sure that none of the posts on that matter won't be saying to do something that could potentially hurt you.

Some people can do some things in the gym that would hurt others, and if you don't do the moves right or don't have the correct position when you do, for example, bench presses, you could hurt your back.

Common sense has to be applied generously when training with weights. If you don't know how to do something, then don't do it, or seek professional advice.

It would be actually interesting to know if there are people on this board who are certified professional trainers or have some sort of credentials of that sort. Maybe if there are people who have those credentials it would be great to hear their point of view on the matter.

[135711]

as they say on tv: check with your doctor. But in the meanwhile here's a good workout.
You go into a typical weight room, and it's designed in a circular fashion. You start either top down or down to top. So first go to a corner or the floor and do about 5 minutes of stretches. Don't bounce on your muscles when you stretch, just stretch a muscle slowly to the maximum and hold it for a few seconds without straining. Breathe naturally. After you've stretched, head for the weights. There are basically free weights and 'machine' weights. Start with a seated machine weight. Beginners usually start with a down to up routine. Meaning you work your lower leg, upper leg, gluteous maximus, hips, torso, and back, arms neck. So for calf muscles, one of the best is to stand with your feet shoulder width apart, holding two free weights one in each hand, in a relaxed manner, raise up onto your toes and hold for a few seconds. then return to a flat footed position. repeat for 10 rest. Go to the seat for the muscles just above your knees and do 10 knee raises. Never put too much weight on the thingy. Lift slowly and smoothly, don't jerk a weight [except for body building doing like a million pounds], hold the weight in the maximum position for a few seconds, slowly lower the weight and don't touch it to the top of the weights below, and then quickly raise the weight up again, hold, lower until almost touching the top of the next weight and then quickly raise the weight again. repeat 10 times. rest. go to the universal and sit down, your going to do pull downs, 10 facing the universal, and turn around and do 10 facing the opposite direction. the same rule applying, don't drop the weight. keep lifting. Opps i forgot the adductors and abductors, you can use the universal, or go to the chairs that they usually have (i worked out on polaris equipment) they have two chairs, one for working outter hips and one for inner thighs and hips. Same thing, 10 reps, don't drop the weight. Most women can start at 50 pounds using leg muscles, men can start at 75. The tricepts are important in fencing, it's the backbone of your reposte. Using a free weight, stand or sit in an upright position. Your going to extend your arm back until it is straightened out, and then slowly drop it back to the original position, it looks something like a hinge. It's very effective. The back of your legs need to be worked on using either the machine or a stick and doing squats, or step lunges. holding a pole behind your head with two hands on either end. Your going to stand straight. Then you're going to step forward with your right foot approximately 2 feet into a step lunge. Hold the position for a few seconds and return to a standing position. Change feet. The squat is from a standing position, your going to hold the same pole behind your head and simply bend your knees while [believe this or not] sticking your butt out.[don't worry], hold for a few moments and return to a standing position. after you've completed this circuit, rest for a few minutes and do another circuit, keeping the reps and weights the same. Repeat a total of three times. Do this 3 times per week, in several weeks you'll be able to up the weights. But you want to watch that you don't become too much into the upping the weight thing, but you should feel resistence while you train. Add running to your schedule as time permits, it doesn't have to be a big thing, but at least one mile should be challenged when you go out. when you get tired, don't forget to use your arms to run with. using your arms will increase your speed. there are numerous books available, but we're on the net, free and etc. i hope this helps, though i may not be certified. you can pm me if you hurt yourself and i'll find out how we can fix it.

<small>[ 07-15-2002, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: 135711 ]</small>

[KC]

I agree with the post that everybody should have their training program taylored to them. I was out of fencing for six years and my shape... erm... was "more" than it used to be. (kinda pear shaped) anyway I started visiting my trainer at my local gym and 3 months later I am down 43 lbs. Still working on getting to that competition weight by January. I have lost the fat but kept the lean. My muscle mass is large (from serious weight lifting days) but I still have a large amount of flexibility due to a form of yoga.
Has the muscle hindered me?... I don't think so but this is me not you. If you want to determine what your body can do, see a trainer and talk to them about your goals... They can design a program that will allow you to achieve what you want as long as to stick with it.

[arcon]

Ok, lets just have the person who posted go back edit his post and ask for
certified licensed professionals instead of generally asking the opinions of the board and then we can all shut up and listen. Is that better? I need to count to 10 before i
continue.......1.........2........3..........4.... ......5..............6............7...........8... ..........9........10

I should just stop!

arcon

<small>[ 07-15-2002, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: arcon ]</small>

[angrylemur]

I work out already, but I do it like a bodybuilder, and occasionally like a powerlifter. My routines aren't tailored for fencing. I'm talking to a fencer right now about getting a program he's made.

I don't care what your qualifications are, I want people who are speaking from experience to give me their opinions, plain and simple.

[Inquartata]

I too use weights, but not with fencing in mind specifically---hey, not everything in one's life must revolve about fencing, after all.

The only concessions I make to specific exercises are wrist curls and wrist rolls, to enhance, well, obviously, wrist strength. And to stave off any possibility of carpal tunnel syndrome. The rest of my strength training is fairly general, all-around fitness stuff...

[Sanky]

In my earlier post I mentioned that I run twice a week.

Well I screwed up my ankle last night whilst running. I'm now strapped up and on pain killers. Running is evil No fencing for me this week <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[latenight]

Anybody surf? I don't, but it always seemed like it would help with strength and balance.