Success without a coach

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

What I am about to write I do not present as fact, merely opinion, or first hand observation. I'm not responsible for any failures that result from you reading this (though I am responsible for the successes).

In the course of your fencing career, you may find yourself without lessons or a mentor. Perhaps you live in a town that has no coach, or maybe you cant afford a coach, or maybe you're stranded on a desert island without a coach handy. Whatever. I am writing this as a sort of "guide" to succeeding without a coach.

Minds are like parachutes; they work best when open.

- Lord Thomas Dewar

You have to keep your mind open to different ideas and not be set in the idea that you are "right", because often times, without a coach, you are wrong.

"Ask every question. Question every answer. Answer every question and every answer with a question."

- David Carradine


Asking questions is the quickest way to success. Ask them of yourself, of your superiors, and of your enemys. Fencers tend to be arrogant, and are often more than willing to give out good advice. If you can pick the brains of your sport, you will expand your fencing mind by leaps and bounds, as often times peoples minds are in different modes than yours, so they have much to offer, as well as often times a different point of view that might enlighten you further.



Knowledge is power.

- Sir Francis Bacon

Study your sport and its origins, where it has been, and where it is going. Learn the terms used in it. Read books about fencing, and articles by other fencers. Most of all, question things until they present themselves as likely true, but stay open minded to different ideas/facts. The sport and the people involved with the sport are constantly changing, so likely will the answers. Learn the rules, as they will prove themselves valuable.

To teach is to learn.
- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Teach what you know, because when you try to help someone else, you often see the subject from a view that you never saw before.

Fitness - It it came in a bottle, everybody would have a great body

- Cher

You can reap a tremendous benefit by being stronger and faster than your opponent, that is a fact. Another fact is that many fencers do not put in the time and effort to get fit. Fencing is a sport that at its prime, uses every major muscle group in the body, so they should all be strong. You will subject your body to a great many stresses during the time that you fence, so warming up, stretching and strength training will all benefit you, as well as prevent injuries. I would suggest doing research, and becoming more intelligent about the way your muscles work, and how they can become more effective for fencing. I've found that reading boxing and tennis forums has been an educational experience, as they are sports with similar physical requirements. I would suggest running twice a week, doing upper body strengthening twice a week, and lower body strengthening twice a week, along with your fencing.

The devil is in the details

- unknown

Practice, practice, practice. Many fencers do not practice their moves. Alot of success is simply in doing things better than your adversary. Spend some time practicing your extensions, your footwork, your parries, all of it. Especially your footwork. Footwork allows you to pick the time and place to make your move, and it allows you to thwart your opponents moves. I could write 2 more articles about the importance of footwork, but I can some footwork up in 2 words: PRACTICE IT.


Keep hope alive!

- Jesse Jackson


Sometimes in fencing, its easy to lose hope when you dont have a coach, or people to lean on. Do whatever it takes to keep it with you. That motivation, the drive, the desire, the burn to win. Thats what legends are made of. Do something to remind yourself of your potential.

Some people are afraid of what they might find if they try to analyze themselves too much, but you have to crawl into your wounds to discover where your fears are. Once the bleeding starts, the cleansing can begin.

- Tori Amos

Without a coach, you have to be your own worst critic. This means after practice, and tournaments, you must evaluate what you did well, why it worked, what you did wrong, why it was wrong, and how to fix it. Also, try to analyze other fencers, as practice for analyzing yourself. This process of
evaluation is the key to honing your game sharper.


Competition is the whetstone of talent.
- Unknown


Competition will always help. Fencing different and better people will get you familiar with different actions, patterns, feelings, styles and people. I can't fully explain the significance of constant testing of yourself against superior
fencers.



Thats all I can think of right now. I'm interested in some other self trained fencers posting or commenting on this writing. Crits and critique please!

[LUDICROUS]

I can't fully explain the significance of constant testing of yourself against superior
fencers.

Fencing your betters makes you focus alot harder, and move alot faster. Either you can, or you can't. It helps weed out the bad habits - they can see them, inform you, and you can fix it. Or you see it yourself when they thrash you 15-0 by taking advantage of it.

The first reason is why I'm becoming a fitness freak. I don't wanna end up tired in the DE's at a tournament. Hell, I don't want to be tired at all - but the fitter I get, the harder I'll push myself, and the more tired I'll get - vicious circle


BTW, this is all IMHO.

[telkanuru]

You forgot:

Mistakes- It could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
-Despair.com

[ThatReallyHurt]

At the risk of being flamed, here's one that is probably better for someone new to the sport who has verrrrry high expectations and doesn't think they need to practice:

"... only time and experience will give you a fencer's mind. No amount of talking or intellectualizing will do it. You simply realize the process is there to be developed; and, through deeds, you accomplish that task."

- Nick Evangelista, "The Art and Science of Fencing"

[telkanuru]

I think N.E. fits my first post rather well.

I would say without talking or intellectualizing, it is nearly impossible to develop a 'fencer's mind'. Practice is paramount, surely, but I know plenty of people with a ton of skills and no ability for tactical though.

[Ordway]

Good post. I went for 10 years without a coach, getting myself from a U to a C in the process, so I know that there's a lot you can do by yourself. (However, I do think you need to start with some training. I had a couple of years of fencing and competing on the UMass team to start with.)

I'd add:

Be patient. You have to come to understand your own learning curve, and without a coach to focus your activities, it will take longer for you to work out problems. That doesn't mean they're not solvable, just that you can't get frustrated and give up.

Find a role model. Someone who is better than you, whose style you want to learn from. If this is a clubmate who can give you tips, all the better, but even just having a person or two whom you keep a close eye on when you see them fence at tournaments is helpful. You want to observe how your role model solves tactical problems, and what techniques he/she uses, so you can go off and practice them on your own. You do want to have someone whose style and physique is similar to your own, so you can apply what they do more directly. (My role model back on the East Coast was Delia Turner.)

Keep looking for a coach... but keep in mind that "no coach" is better than a "bad coach." I'm probably particularly stubborn and individualistic, so for me in particular, a good fit in terms of personality and teaching style is very important. The one coach (who shall remain nameless) in the Baltimore area whom I tried to work with, turned out to be just *awful*. Awful awful. I lasted about a month trying to work with him and then bailed with a sigh of relief.

OTOH, after going it alone for a while, you'll appreciate a good coach all the more, once you find one. I'm sure my new coach is already tired of hearing me enthuse about how happy I am to work with him, but honestly, it's like arriving at an oasis after years wandering in the desert.

[Mo]

It is also great to go to camps. Learn drills, observe, fence like crazy.
An intense camp that lasts a week can do wonders for an up and coming fencer.

[esskreemr]

Video tape yourself bouting. You'd be amazed at how different you look on the strip compared with how you thinki you look. In my mind's eye, I usually see myself as moving through water when I'm on the strip, very different when you watch the tape.

[Orangeaholic]

Great job DFP! You really summed it up right! It's hard without a coach, but you sound like you are being really successful without one!

P.S. Love the quotes!

Orange

[bigdawg2121]

Good job. I'd also stress the general importance of observing your surroundings. What types of actions get right of way from better referees? What types of actions and tactics are being used by the people still in the tournament when you're done for the day? What types of things are top coaches working on with their students? You can never take in too much information, I've spent the vast majority of my 6yrs fencing without a coach to speak of other than Mom when she drove me to tourneys, and a good bit of it with not much in the way of practice partners. Somehow I've managed to obtain good solid results in all three weapons and appearances in a few Junior World Cups overseas, and I think that your post more or less covers the basics.

[broncofencer]

Also remeber that there are as many styles or ways of fencing as there are letters in the alphabet so no information is "wrong" just another way of doing things. I fneced my entire career with no coach I learn more from competion than I do practices because I have to figure out what they are doing fencing people from the same club alot begins to inbreed your skills because everyone has a similar style.

[mrbiggs]

[quote=D+F+P=Hadouken!]I can't fully explain the significance of constant testing of yourself against superior
fencers. [\QUOTE]

Superior fencers, I think, are so important to fence because you can copy them. They can teach you new moves and strategies by using them on you.

They also help you find your own weaknesses by exploiting them. If I'm fencing a strong fencer, and he is able to get 5 straight touches on me with a counterattack to my lower wrist, then obviously I need to protect my lower wrist.

I think that of all the training methods I've used, fencing stronger fencers in a tournament is by far the most educational. That's only for me, though.

[Ordway]

Originally Posted by broncofencer

Also remeber that there are as many styles or ways of fencing as there are letters in the alphabet so no information is "wrong" just another way of doing things.

I see what you're saying, but... I can't say as I agree. There are some ways of doing things that are, simply, less effective (or ineffective) compared to other ways of doing the same thing.

When you're coaching yourself, you have to find the delicate balance between 1) constantly flip-flopping your technique based on Advice of the Week, and 2) pigheadedly sticking to something just because it's been working OK for you and you don't want to change it.

I'm definitely more likely to be in the latter camp, myself. But that's a tendency I have to work against. I've had various quirks in my style over the years that "worked for me" for a while... at least against weaker or less experienced fencers. Sometimes you just have to realize that yes, what you're doing IS wrong, and there IS a better way.

What I do think is possible (and desirable) is to learn to adapt new skills and improvements to your own style and preferences, so that you *do* have your own style, but you're constantly making it more effective.

I fneced my entire career with no coach I learn more from competion than I do practices because I have to figure out what they are doing fencing people from the same club alot begins to inbreed your skills because everyone has a similar style.

Very very true. Visiting other clubs for an evening's practice, if you know someone there who can invite you in, is also very productive.

[SJB]

Show me a fencer who has made medals at a NAC, Regional Championship, National Championship, World Cup or World Championship without ever having a coach and I will show you a pig with wings.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by SJB

Show me a fencer who has made medals at a NAC, Regional Championship, National Championship, World Cup or World Championship without ever having a coach and I will show you a pig with wings.

lemme get back to you in 4 years.

[broncofencer]

Originally Posted by SJB

Show me a fencer who has made medals at a NAC, Regional Championship, National Championship, World Cup or World Championship without ever having a coach and I will show you a pig with wings.

A pig without wings is still a good pig. Medals at high level tournaments are not thew only measure of fencing sucess.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by SJB

Show me a fencer who has made medals at a NAC, Regional Championship, National Championship, World Cup or World Championship without ever having a coach and I will show you a pig with wings.

Jeez, man, DFP isn't suggesting that it's a good idea to not have a coach. It's obvious that he doesn't have access to a coach, certainly not a coach who regularly turns out medal winners at national or international competitions. And even if this isn't DFPs case, that's who he made these suggestions for.

Do you have something helpful to contribute?

[Araznal]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Superior fencers, I think, are so important to fence because you can copy them. They can teach you new moves and strategies by using them on you.

....

I think that of all the training methods I've used, fencing stronger fencers in a tournament is by far the most educational. That's only for me, though.

I agree with this to an extent. I too, learn a lot by fencing far better fencers, but I can't help imagining the most vicious cycle. I see it a lot in the PSAL (public school athletic league) in New York. It begins with some kids starting fencing in high school with some gym teacher as their coach who maybe picked up a foil twice in his life. The first kids that join the team think they are learning the right thing. They learn enough to win a few bouts (not hard in the PSAL) and then they easily beat the new guys coming to the team. The new guys think that the senior members are incredible fencers and pick up all the wrong stuff that the original guys learned. Meanwhile, the existence of real fencing clubs and USFA competitions are completely unknown to everyone and the cycle continues.

Granted, this is a specific situation, but I went through a similar situation (just showing how common it happens). Before I started fencing seriously, I fenced in my camp and there was one guy who came in my last year there. He was from Metropolis and he beat everybody easily. I asked him how he did it, and he gave me a bunch of bad advice. I took this bad advice with me until I joined my club. Then I learned through so many whoopings and my coach telling me how much I do wrong that I was VERY stupid (got me out of the cycle ).

There are so many kids across the country suffering from the cycle. Though I agree that fencing good fencers is the best way to improve (though lessons are a close second), the definition of "good" varies widely. It especially depends on where you fence. It's much easier to pick up junk technique when you train in Moscow, Texas than Houston, Texas.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't want anyone to think that they can get very far without a good coach.

[MikeHarm]

One of the things that I liked was the Tischler footwork exercises, that anyone can do at home without a coach.

If you get a weight vest you can get a feel for when you're leaning and off balance or reaching because the weight from the vest will feel a lot heavy whenever you aren't centered and balanced property. I think that helps a lot with the home training.

Also I'm big on video training, especially the Selberg ones.

I think the big thing is don't let yourself get psyched out, use other fencers to learn stuff, use the net and realize that even if it takes you a lot longer to learn stuff on your own if you really work hard and keep focused you'll keep making progress over the long haul.

[mrbiggs]

Araznal, I agree with you 100%. Especially with local high school fencing, usually the clubs with the worst teams are the ones whose coaches are not...very good. Even the schools with long fencing traditions.

The strategy I use of mostly going to tournaments is dependant on support from coaches, teammates, and other fencers. In foil, I don't take private lessons, as I find them unhelpful and in short a waste of money, but my coach still gives me tips, as do any clubmates I fence, especially the better ones. I would suck at fencing if it were not for this support.
Epee is a completely different story, as I have no (consistant) coach or teammates to refer to. Therefore, most of the feedback I get in epee that is not in a competitive atmosphere is from friends at tournaments who fence epee. Often, they give me tips and stuff to help me out.
I have to say that this board is helpful, too, from time to time.

But in short, although going to tournaments is the most helpful part of my improving in fencing, it only works because of the advice I get.