Closing down the Internet

[Inquartata]

It's a bit like the Constitution: one can interpret it pretty much as one sees fit, if one is prepared to stretch words and phrases enough and has the training to do it. The early fathers of the church were, and did, it seems to me.

[esskreemr]

It is not sinful to procreate...in marriage. That's the whole deal. Christianity finds sex to be so holy that it is only for a married couple because it truly is "two becoming one." It's not for cheap thrills. Marriage is a very serious matter, & so is sex. To step out of Christianity for a moment, to have premarital (or extra marital) sex opens a person up to many diseases, unwanted pregnancy & emotional distress.

So what qualifies a couple as being married? The Church? A certificate on the wall? Can it be something deeper than having someone spray holy water on the couple and the exchange of baubles?

Also, your perspective is interesting considering that the Bible has numerous examples of polygamous marriages, sex with concubines, forced sex with family members, impregnation of minors, forced marriage, and slave marriages. What does it mean to "step out of Christianity" to have premarital or extramarital sex? One particular beaut was a requirement for raped women to marry the rapist. Oh yeah, how about the stoning of non-virgins whose lack of virginity was discovered on marriage night? Of course, the men who took their virginity probably got a few nasty stares. Seems to me that non-marital sex was not only condoned, but encouraged in specific instances. For instance, having raped a virgin, the rapist could then pay the father 50- pieces of silver and then marry her. Makes it pretty easy if you have a crush on a woman.

As for diseases and emotional distress. How many marriages end in divorce? The divorce rate is higher in "Christian" marriages compared with atheist marriages.

Original sin came about in the Gardnen, as stated before. But it is NOT just the woman's fault. Man is just as guilty. The fact that both men & women lie, cheat, steal, etc. shows how imperfect we are as humans.

Ok, fair enough. Share the guilt of the sin of being born human...

Many people seem to think that Christians live under so many rules that they can't be happy with life. That couldn't be further from the truth. There are some Christians who feel the need to beat themselves daily for one thing or another, but that's not how it's supposed to work. God didn't give us rules to punish us, just like we as parents don't give our children rules to punish them. They're for protection. It's not a "if it feels good, it's a sin" thing. While some sinful things tend to be more attractive, there are plenty of things that feel good that are NOT a sin. When done within the boundaries of what God wants us to do, we can live a very happy, peaceful life.

I just wish the God would be a little more explicit about what he wants us to do. Instead, you have as many different versions of what God wants us to do as you have versions of the bible and denominations of Christianity. I believe that God's word would be self-evident. Not used to spew hatred and political agendas...

Something to remember, even though a Christian says, "I can't do that," it's not because they're brainwashed or anything. They simply want to follow God. Same as other religions. Muslims, Jews, etc. want to follow their gods & stay within their boundries (I'm not talking about the lunatic fringe, mind you). In a way, it's like someone on a diet saying, "I can't eat that chocolate cake." Sure, they COULD eat it & it would taste great, but it doesn't mean it's good for them.

This is a broad generalization. I know many "Christians" who have been brainwashed in just such a manner. I also know many non-Christians who have been brainwashed, to be far...

I hope some of this makes sense. I'm very tired & in desperate need of sleep right now. If anyone has any questions, or wants something clarified, please ask, rather than assume. Assumptions are not a good thing in life. It's just better for everyone to ask if you aren't sure.

Thanks for your willingness to open discussion on this matter.

[esskreemr]

I'm not interested in twisted church doctrine. It's not "always" sinful. Obviously, there is a good reason for it, or God wouldn't put into us the drive, as well as the appropriate parts.

Not going to argue this.

Score 1 point for Moonitic...

[Purple Fencer]

And people wonder why I don't practicw the religion I was born into...

Think I'll plan to sin with the wife toimight....

[mifencer]

Uh... going back to the start of the thread...

So for smiles and grins (or sh*ts and giggles), I Googled for UCAWWW. I got their petition page. Their sponser banner was a Detox ad. The irony grows....

[Inquartata]

Score 1 point for Moonitic...

Uh...right...just saying "No, it's NOT, and I'm not going to argue" is such an eloquent rebuttal...

This is what gets religions in trouble in the first place: the utter certainty that their dogmas are Right and any criticism of them are Wrong and that's that.

[esskreemr]

Uh...right...just saying "No, it's NOT, and I'm not going to argue" is such an eloquent rebuttal...

This is what gets religions in trouble in the first place: the utter certainty that their dogmas are Right and any criticism of them are Wrong and that's that.

I gave her a point for acknowledging that not all sex is bad. Not for the argument.

[latenight]

I think all sex is good.......can I have some points?

[Fencergrl]

Sorry LN, it's against my religion to give you points.

[latenight]

Sorry LN, it's against my religion to give you points.

lol............Joking aside, your not the first person to say something to that effect to me on this board.....

[Inquartata]

I gave her a point for acknowledging that not all sex is bad. Not for the argument.

Ah.

Well, I think only the Shakers still believe that ALL sex is bad. Or they would if there were any left...

( Now someone will tell me there ARE some left, I'm sure. )

[Prometheus]

Ah.
( Now someone will tell me there ARE some left, I'm sure. )

Yep.

Sabbathday Lake Shaker Village

[Moonitic]

Uh...right...just saying "No, it's NOT, and I'm not going to argue" is such an eloquent rebuttal...

This is what gets religions in trouble in the first place: the utter certainty that their dogmas are Right and any criticism of them are Wrong and that's that.

If you must know, I was not saying "I'm right, you're wrong...so there!" I was saying that I wasn't going to argue the point. There is nothing wrong with that. Why continue down the line if no one is going to change their viewpoint? It's very clear by past discussions that this will go no where. Sometimes, it is better to just step away from an argument, don't you think? It doesn't make someone less intelligent, or a coward. I hate wasting my time.

I do not wish to continue. Simple as that. Nothing I say will change how you feel about my beliefs. I've realized that & have decided that I really don't care. I only decided to respond this time because you made yet another assumption. This time, a personal one about me. I don't feel I'm right & "that's that." I am, contrary to somewhat popular belief, open to others' ideas, but I know a pointless argument when I see one. Every time a "discussion" about the Christian religion comes up, the same things are said over & over. It gets dull.

Believe as you wish. Whether anyone likes it or not, I'll believe as I wish as well. Have a nice day. There's more to life than arguing, & I tend to go see what's out there.