Aldo Nadi(on gaurde position)

[arcon]

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: arcon ]

[Craig]

If you are in a 'middle' position, then you are not natually defending or closing any one line.

When you come enguard in 6 or 8, you are closing out that line from direct attack.

Also, in a 'middle' state, you would have to react to more feints to different lines, and the time it takes to change direction from 4 back to 6 may be all someone needs to get a touch on you.

There are lots of accounts as to why Nadi was undefeated. Some say it was because he was just that good, others say it was because he would be very specific on who he would bout against.

Cheers,
Craig

[Christopher J Umbs]

I've got a friend (SF) who does the Nadi stance. I don't like the middle guard since I believe in limiting the number of responses that my opponent has. However, the strangest thing I find about Nadi's guard is the back heel off the ground.

[POCCIA]

I believe the main reason modern coaches do not like the arm to be inbetween is when you have one line closed, you do not have to move your arm if your opponent extends into your closed line. If both lines are open, then you always have to parry from your middle position.
With only one line open, that forces your opponent to attack your open line or feint to your open line to draw the parry. Feints to your closed line are a supposed waste of his energy.

This is my understanding.

[thebigriddle]

I have the same stance. I also teach the same stance as well. I never really know that Aldo Nadi used that stance.

[Stryder]

The center guard means a shorter response time for me and a smaller reaction to my opponent's feints.

If you camp in one line you will react every time to the other. It will become more and more of a habit and thus be more and more of a predictable liability.

"Aldo" is Italian for "Stryder". I'll bet you didn't know that.

And He was unbeatable in all three weapons for 19 years. (According to him)

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www.geocities.com/strydermike

[This message has been edited by Stryder (edited 06-19-2001).]

[Christopher J Umbs]

If you are worried about being too predictable sitting in 6th, you could try to really freak your opponent out and go on guard in prime or second. Nedo Nadi, btw, always went on guard in fourth.

Chris

[edew]

Sometimes, I think those who think going on guard in some position besides sixth are like rookie chess players who think moving the bishop's pawn is a great starting move. Go right ahead. A practiced fencer (or chess player) will eat that move alive.

Most fencers go on guard either in sixth or eighth position, both guarding the outside lines. However, what the position is really useful for is the simplicity of position: it's a fairly natural position to be in, and easy from there to go to almost any other position. And extensions from that position is just that much harder to detect than from other positions. So it is a combination of efficiency and camouflage.

[d8m2k]

Aldo had a unique stlye suited for him. Remember he was 6'1" and weighed around 130 lbs. We're talking really thin. Physically, he couldn't withstand the rigors of a tournament, that's why he quit fencing tournaments.

Most top level fencers (to a certain extent all) develop their own syle. Just because Aldo used it effectively doesn't mean everyone should. Just because Aldo was great in his day, doesn't mean he would have the same success today. And just because Aldo cheated on his wife doesn't mean every fencer should.

[veeco]

I read both Nadi's books. I don't want to sound cocky or anything, but I think Nadi was not as great as certain would like to think.

Sure he was a fairly good fencer at his time. And sure, he did not loose a lot of bouts, but he did loose some, and whatever the excuses he invents in his books, he did loose those bouts.

I think it is more appropriate to remember Nadi as one of the last real professional fencers living, than that of 'the greatest fencer of all times'. Because fencing is such an old sport, I don't think anyone can or will be able to claim that they are the greatest fencer of all time. Anyone who receives this title or proclaims himself that should think either about the size of their ego or the fencing knowledge of the person who crowned them.

There have been a lot of fencers who have been at least as successful as Nadi, and noone makes a big deal of them. Maybe because they did not dare write an autobiography.

And I bet you that once I stop fencing (not likely to happen, I reassure you) I will be undefeated from that point on. Nadi was undefeated from the time he moved to the US where he personally says the level of fencing was weak at the time.

[veeco]

Originally posted by d8m2k:
Just because Aldo was great in his day, doesn't mean he would have the same success today. And just because Aldo cheated on his wife doesn't mean every fencer should.

Which is quite a shame. I could have said that Aldo Nadi had set a precedent that I was trying to follow... I was not my fault. I wanted to become the greatest fencer of all times, so you understand, I had to do it!

[d8m2k]

Originally posted by veeco:

Which is quite a shame. I could have said that Aldo Nadi had set a precedent that I was trying to follow... I was not my fault. I wanted to become the greatest fencer of all times, so you understand, I had to do it!

I am only repeating what I was told when I used that excuse. Believe me there are better ones!

[Christopher J Umbs]

d8m2k,

About the height/weight thing.. know it well. I'm 6' 130. Fortunately, I've also got some really long arms attached.

Chris

[mango fever]

most of us are interested in aldo nadi.

Aldo Nadi was no doubt quick on his feet, had a cat's feline agility, had superior reaction time and knew his sport thoroughly. I think he could size a fencer up with a casual look. I imagine his confidence on and off the strip was intimidating to many.

I've not seen proof in the US that such a fencer exists today.

[arcon]

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: arcon ]

[rjccj]

Sounds like it's just something else to try in practice. Never know how something works for you unless you try it for yourself. If you like it and it is effective, then try it really bouting, to give your opponant a different look. Past couple of practices I've been coming en guarde in one or four against a couple of lefties just to try something. I haven't have much sucess with a middle guarde though personally. My six is weak anyway and opening it up that much allows people to power through my parries. Have also been working on making my six stronger, but that's just a glaring weakness in my personal game. lol

[Stryder]

Mircomarty-
Would that be different from a dog's feline agility?

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www.geocities.com/strydermike

[The Bayer Hunter]

Cliff Bayer could kick the bejesus out of Aldo Nadi. I can just see his half 4 half 6 on guard and cat's feline reflexes crumble under the pounding of Bayer's flick attacks. Goooooood bye adulterer!!

[d8m2k]

Originally posted by micromarty:
...I've not seen proof in the US that such a fencer exists today.

MM,
You should really look at some of the top US fencers. Zimmermann, Bayer, Smart, Greenhouse, Cross, Spencer-El, Leahy. Some are incomplete, but they are young and improving. Obviously the US fencers aren't the best in the world, but many are strong international competitors.

You should also remember that today's athletes are much stronger and faster than athlete's of Nadi's time. The science of training is so much more developed, the athletes so much more professional in their training, that physically, I doubt Aldo could have competed with them using his training methods (which involved gambling, womanizing, drinking, no weight training, and very little fencing).


[This message has been edited by d8m2k (edited 06-20-2001).]